VHF balance

[mjolnir]

VHFs are right now one of the best balanced ship classes in the game. Here I'm suggesting some fine-tuning that is needed to make it perfect from my view. Most of these ideas come from other players than me, I just thought about posting them in one place.

EDIT: I'm adding suggestions made by others later in the thread into this post.

Werewolf

Now:
It has Titan powerplant and great armor, but only 5 guns and it's a huge target from the side as well. Since it's a vanilla ship so the armor doesn't help that much. It's also even less agile than a Titan.

suggested change

Small increase in agility to somewhere between the Titan and Raven's Talon.

EDIT: Changing the lvl 9 slot to lvl 10

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Greyhound - I count it is a VHF since it has VHF turning and powerplant

Now:
4 guns and very bad strafing as well as average turning, big powerplant. Hitbox much bigger than the ship.
post #8 first two pictures
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?s=...st&p=239062

suggested change
1) resize the hitbox to fit better

or

2) Increase strafing

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Stinger

Now:
Sabre powerplant, average agility good turning for a non-vanilla ship. TINY hitbox.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=15397&st=0
post # 8 pictures 3 and 4 - defender hitbox without wings that covers like central 1/3 of the ship.

suggested change
Better fitting hitbox.
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Virage

Now
Sabre powerplant, <strike>average agility</strike>,slow strafing, very good turning for a non-vanilla ship. Low armor.. and wrong hitbox
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?s=...st&p=239368
post # 42, on the right.

suggested change
Better fitting hitbox. - resized Dagger?
EDIT: Increase strafing speed a bit?, A bit better agility.

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Raven Claw

Now
Eagle powerplant (small), 8 guns, average agility and turning and wrong hitbox not centered on the ship axis.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?s=...st&p=242289
post#71 second picture

suggested change
Better fitting hitbox. - resized Dagger again I guess

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Blood Dragon HF

Now
Eagle powerplant (small), great agility and turning as well as tiny size

suggested change - not by me in the first place
Reducing gun level to 2x lvl 8 and 4x lvl 9 or 6x lvl 9.

EDIT: Dab doesn't agree and suggest Chimaera should get armor decrease instead, or Blood Dragon changed to 4x lvl 9 and 2x lvl 10

BUT.. changing weapon slots down is probably not possible without a player wipe.

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Sabre

Now
average powerplant, 6 guns plus turret, great turning, extreme strafing, middle-size target

suggested change
Decrease the turning rate from 1.225 it has now to 1.2.

EDIT: Other suggested increasing mass from 75 to some 100-120 so it's strafing get's a bit worse, but doing that instead of changing turnting rate would destroy the uniqueness of the ship.

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EDIT:

Blunt suggested increasing agility on the Templar, in exchange for something to make it better against KNF ships.

I personally don't think it's necessary since it's actually quite good in dodging and has huge armor. Bretonia
also has really good guns.


EDIT2: Unseile would like the heavy armored and slow VHFs: Titan, Templar, Werewolf even heavier armored (3k for Titan, 1-2k for Templar and Werewolf) to make them even more different.

I think it's a good idea.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Othman]

Sabre has a mass of 75. Thats why its uber responsive. Even the LFs have it at 100 (Scimitar) while the entire other VHFs have the mass of 150. Its mass should be fixed to 150.

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On the uncharted lagoons of anguish, I sail with a canoe made of my sins.

[Jinx]

can we aswell reclassify the dragon HF to a dragon VHF - or the hammerhead from a VHF to a HF. thats not much - but i don t like it that the dragon is a HF and better in every stat including armour than the hammerhead - that is considered very heavy.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Yngen]

If the weapon classes of the Blood Dragon are to be reduced, then it should be reclassified as a Heavy Fighter. If it is to remain a VHF, then the turning, strafing and mass should be brought closer to the average VHFs.

I agree with changing the Greyhound's hitbox, but not increasing strafe, with a proper hitbox it would be a very small VHF that doesn't need a lot of maneuverability.

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[AU]Anton_Blix
-Signature by Doom

[mjolnir]

If the weapon classes of the Blood Dragon are to be reduced, then it should be reclassified as a Heavy Fighter. If it is to remain a VHF, then the turning, strafing and mass should be brought closer to the average VHFs.

BD is listed as HF now

I agree with changing the Greyhound's hitbox, but not increasing strafe, with a proper hitbox it would be a very small VHF that doesn't need a lot of maneuverability.

I wrote either hitbox or strafe.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Zapp]

Whoa whoa whoa... Whoa. I like my Sabre, don't change it...

Besides that (which is more me being selfish than any reason) this all looks good. I suggest the Werewolf gets a bigger boost than that, though. I'm also for all hitbox fixes. As for the BD HF: I like the idea. Mine uses all BD guns anyways, though I do want a Paralyzer. Whatever, its a good idea, though not even the HG and NPG uses them much, anymore: its terrible bomber spam up there.

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[McNeo]

I also think that the werewolf should get the agility boost shown by Mjolnir plus its only lvl 9 becoming a lvl 10 gun slot.... but apart from that it looks good..

[RingoW]

Except for a few VHF's, the difference in skills of players is wider than the differences of the ships.
Me for example. Even if i would fly a Sabre or a Blood Dragon, many others will beat me with a Titan and so on.

Well, i use the Titan and i love this pile of scrap. Would not want more agility. Its a very very heavy fighter and has much more character, than many others.:ylove:

Is there any rule that cares about HF and VHF? I consider only Titan and Werewolf and Odin as very heavy fighters. All others are HF MkII. Some of them with lvl 9 and 10 weaponslots and some with lvl 8 and 9.


I'm not a balancing maniac. Must everything really be balanced? Only thing i agree with are the hitboxes, but i will have to pull the bolt out of my eyes first.:D

AoM

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

I class like this
Any Fighter with a level 10 gun slot is VHF.
any with level 9 and lower is HF (idk about LF...)

[mjolnir]

I also think that the werewolf should get the agility boost shown by Mjolnir plus its only lvl 9 becoming a lvl 10 gun slot.... but apart from that it looks good..

Added that one ... didn't think about that.

@ Zapp... well I like my Sabres too.. but they are a bit on the uber side

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.