Quote:The admins have to make decisions based upon screenshots and any other evidence they might receive. They DON'T have the full picture, yet they usually get it right. Mistakes, however, can be made and yes, they should be pointed out BUT WITH THE PROPER RESPECT. Just because they have sanctioned you wrongly (in your mind) that DOES NOT make them the enemy. They are admins because they are judged to be unbiased. I'm fed up of writing about it now, so I'll summarise:
This Discovery community needs to stop acting like a spoiled child and give respect where it is due.
Agreed.
I freely admit that I am quite capable of making a rambling and impassioned note that has no coherence when read by someone else on my part. That's not due to lack of age or immaturity - it's mostly because composing things on the fly with me doesn't always produce the intended results.
Quote:The way I see it, is if you are Red then you are dead, the NPC's do not give the option of scanning for an ID so why should a player, they just attack head on,and if you are not quick enough to kill or get out of their way then you are dead, and you can't complain to the admins about it. if a player is red to another then he or she is an enemy or has been colaberating with your enemys,
If the rookies (NPC's) are causing you fits, then you're obviously doing something wrong. :P
Just as an example of Red issues - I have a character with Bounty Hunter Guild Guard IFF. During a routine patrol in New Berlin two days ago, I ran into a character with Rheinland Military Guard IFF. We were both red to each other, due to the process that we went through to get our respective Guard tags. Does that mean we should be shooting at each other? Not hardly - it means we use some common sense. That's why this is, first and foremost, a ROLE-PLAYING server, not a PvP server.
The other problem with your comment about:
Quote:start new players neutral for a limited time to give them time to decide npc which faction the want to join
is quite simple. What if you don't KNOW what faction you want this character to join, or you're actually role-playing that the character matures, grows up, and changes his lifestyle choices?
I'll use myself as an example - when I was young (way too damn long ago), I started out in security and then the military. Then moved to factory work, then self employed, and now I'm in retail management, with a few other odd jobs in there.
So in game, I'd have ID's of LPI, then perhaps LN, then GMG, Mercenary, and now Trader. I'm certainly the same person (character) that I started out as - I've just changed career paths. That's why my favorite character on the server has Freelancer ID and right now some odd, but lawful, IFF - because when I started him, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And with more than 200 hours of game play in him and he's NOT a trader - I'm not planning on deleting him any time soon.
Quote:I might be the only one who slightly disagrees with this post in some aspects. If people wish to argue with the admins, they should be able to do so without being labelled as immature and insulting. If they are wrong, it will only end in one way; that is, the defeat of the player who committed the infringment.
People SHOULD argue with the administrators IF they have valid points. The key thing is for their arguments to have appropriate evidence to support them, and for the person doing the arguing to be mature and reasoned in their post.
Here's two basic arguments we see:
Quote:I didn't do it, you're wrong, my little brother was on my computer, don't do that to me...
Quote:Hi, could you please let me know about when this occurred? I may have some fraps video or screenshots from the same encounter.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
Okayyyy, I'm weighing in here with my starflea sized ego...
' Wrote:what if your LPI, and theyre zoner GUARD tagged ?
Thats NEUTRAL, but will STILL be red.
' Wrote:The lpi and the zoners tosh if they were to meet then one or the other would be right out of their ZOI, can't use that as an example, doh
' Wrote:Atom, want the red is dead mentality? Go play on Hamburg. We don't do PvP server rules here, mate.
And Zoners and LPi meeting is just fine, Zoner influence stretches right through Sirius, their fingers in every pie. Better to give them the leverage to keep their neutrality.
There you have your answer, Atom. Red=Dead doesn't work on this mod, because 1) House Guard tags are hostile to traders (that shocked me, seeing a [RM] highlighted in the threat box) 2) this is a RP server.
PvP servers are just great. For about a month. I've played on many servers, both as an indy and as part of a faction, both PVP and RP. In my experience, trying to play as an indy on a PvP server is like painting your ship with a big 'PLEASE GANK ME' sign. however, on a RP server, indys can play long enough to set up many different characters, and contribute to the community.
Whilst your red=dead idea seems to be attractive at first glance - it WOULD make it easier to assess threats to your power trader, i agree - trying to get the rep just right would take AGES. I have a ship on SP (disco mod) that i was trying to get neutral with everyone. Not possible in the time frame i allowed for the experiment. I have no doubt that I could do it, but expecting new players to put in over a weeks worth of flying time to get a proper rep? server population would die - people want to play the game, not click on the 'accept mission - abort mission' buttons for hours on end. moreover, with everyone inside the dock fixing reps, there would be no player-player interaction.
' Wrote:Well you made my day Axe I'm glad i made you laugh. but you must have some inferiority complex or a massive ego if you take pleasure at other mistakes. did you have an unhappy childhood or are you still trying to mature.
Now, this is just a no-no. Firstly because Axe - whom I've not met before - seems to welcome these kinds of comment, and secondly, it merely paints you with the same brush.
Back to the topic....
Whilst sanctioning someone/running to big brother should be the last resort, it's important to remember that the majority of players here are male, between the ages of 12-25. Males (myself included) are egos wrapped in flesh, whose thinking is ultimately governed by their.... *cough* hormones. As such, when a conflict is lost - whether in-game, or as above, in the forums, the response is one of ego-driven rebuttal. We should be aware that getting a guy good and angry WILL lead to a rise in blood pressure, the release of adrenalin, and a subsequent but temporary loss of IQ, but also we need to be aware of that in ourselves:
If you get shot down in a pvp/flame war, take a moment to calm down, go fix yourself a drink/sandwich/walk the dog, and then come back to the game/reply to the thread. Take your time, and give the response of a HUMAN, not an animal. I.e. don't be a sore loser.
Observely, don't be a poor winner either, always say //gf in chat, or take the other persons' acceptance of your thoughtfully crafted verbiage (aka flame-post) with equinamity.
Oh, and give the admins a break - they don't get paid, and have to read a lot of 'blah blah blah you're worng this game sux im gonna hack your server lolwuttehfluckubern00bforumspam' type comments. I'm an admin on another forum and it takes a lot of your time away from the game, replying to pm's, posting stuff, creating new posts, even accepting new members can take a while too.... so err, yeah. Lighten up!
' Wrote:I might be the only one who slightly disagrees with this post in some aspects. If people wish to argue with the admins, they should be able to do so without being labelled as immature and insulting. If they are wrong, it will only end in one way; that is, the defeat of the player who committed the infringment.
I dont see whats grinding your gears really, getting backchat from those that are sanctioned rightly or wrongly, is part of the job.
I agree with this. (It sounds like you want the Admins not to even have to put up with any contention at all Axe.)
' Wrote:I agree with this. (It sounds like you want the Admins not to even have to put up with any contention at all Axe.)
My point is that you can contend all you want PRIVATELY. You shouldn't be seeking to drag the admin's name through the mud just to get your way (be it justified or not). The admins won't treat you any differently, public or privately. (And even if the admin deals with it badly or biased you will still have evidence in the form of message logs/chat logs.) If you have sufficent evidence to the contrary there shouldn't be a problem with this.
Like I said, it's not about contention in any way as mistakes are made. It's about RESPECT for those doing a job for others for little to no gain for themselves.
' Wrote:My point is that you can contend all you want PRIVATELY. You shouldn't be seeking to drag the admin's name through the mud just to get your way (be it justified or not). The admins won't treat you any differently, public or privately. (And even if the admin deals with it badly or biased you will still have evidence in the form of message logs/chat logs.) If you have sufficent evidence to the contrary there shouldn't be a problem with this.
The sanction thread is there to deal with the issue, I have enough PM's in my inbox as is.
Why should anyone else be viewing my sanction thread?
(Too bad you cannot post certain PM's/Skype logs with Admins right?)
' Wrote:The sanction thread is there to deal with the issue, I have enough PM's in my inbox as is.
Why should anyone else be viewing my sanction thread?
(Too bad you cannot post certain PM's/Skype logs with Admins right?)
You can't post them PUBLICLY, but if there is a personal problem with one admin, there are others that can address it. That's one of the reasons why there are more than one.
You are unbelieveably naive if you think others are not viewing your sanction thread. That is a ridiculus statement.
You 'break' a rule and you want to contend it there is no difference between posting in a thread and sending a message. This is exactly my point right here. "I can't be arsed." The people fielding the sanctions deserve a better attitude from you than that.
I think you've got me convinced. However, what should we say in a sanction thread? If I were to get sanctioned for something, I'd write something like this:
"Could I please see the evidence for this sanction in private? I may have evidence to counter it, but I cannot recall breaking the rules that have been quoted above. If I knew when and where the infringement was, then I may have evidence proving that I followed the rules."
I'd probably use something like that if I was sanctioned for "OORP behaviour", a sanction title I see growing in its frequency of use.
I would've thought that sanction threads weren't locked for a reason. Perhaps, they need to be, with a note in bold at the bottom asking victims of sanctions to:
"send a request to (admin who posted sanction) for a repeal if you do not agree with the sanction. Visual evidence must be provided and requests for leniency will not be approved."
Hmmm, that's not a bad idea Connor. Although if we do implement it, watch the flames grow. However we've weathered a storm like that recently and we'll weather another just like it in the future, no doubt. Now if you don't mind me gotta go send someone some evidence so he can try and overturn his sanction. Everyone gets an equal shake of the dice.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
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Axe, if what you're getting at is that people who are sanctioned should discuss it via PMs with the Admin who posted the sanction, then I couldn't disagree more. I completely refuse to do any such thing. To get sanctioned you have to do something publicly on the server, and the punishment, explanation, and any arguments about it should all be public as well. That way other people can learn from what is going on. I won't even acknowledge anything someone PMs me about a sanction, it just gets deleted. If they have something to say, they should say it publicly.
The other problem with PMs is that only the Admin receiving the PM has the information in it. Post it in the sanction thread and any Admin can know what is going on easily. Communication is hard enough with all of us in vastly different time zones. If multiple things are being dealt with privately then we'll have total chaos.
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Shock aside, some of us do manage to disagree with the admins in sanction threads, general opinion or whatever without flinging crap at them like monkeys.
Edit: Xoria, I believe the 2-Minute Man is referring to the bad manners which accompanies any complaint or disagreement, not the difference itself.