I really don't feel like reading through a bunch of RP posts or faction history at the moment... But what is the Alpha Code and how did the Zoners get it, and why do the Harvesters want it and why won't the Zoners provide it?
Also, if it came down to it for a Harvester, would they side with a Junker or a Corsair if some were having a 'disagreement'?
Other considerations: The Order is closely allied to both the Corsairs (which I've always disliked, but it's not changing) as well as the Zoners. If the Corsairs turned to hostility towards the Zoners, the Order would be displeased, to put it lightly. They rely on the Zoners an awful lot. Likewise, the Harvesters are a group of inhuman machines who prey on humanity, so the Order should be hostile towards them, even if their close allies (the Zoners) weren't. They shouldn't be very pleased with the fact that the Corsairs are having friendly relations with a group that could be considered as big a threat to humanity as the nomads, save for their (currently) limited numbers.
If the Order was destroying a Harvester, would the Corsairs intervene? What about if it was happening in Gamma? If Harvesters had license to fly freely in Corsair space, I don't think they could count on the Order assisting them in that space.
Edit: And Dusty, this discussion originally started because the Harvester ID makes the toasters and Zoners bitter enemies, and specifically makes them friendly with the Corsairs (docking friendly and no-pirating friendly). That goes beyond individual faction diplomacy and makes it set in stone and official.
The Alpha Code is, to shoot from the hip, something that's keeping the FTGW (first thought giver o' will) stuck on robo planet. The Zoners, in theory, have it as it was their planet and it was decided that the best way to find it was to eat all humans.
Then Mal and co set up a group of folks to settle the score and free the FTGW, or somesuch, but then Scornstar, I believe, dropped off the face of the world and now we're kinda pretending like it never happened maybe.
The biggest problem the Order has with the Harvesters is deciding if they should give each a high five or a fist pound after blowing up one of their capships.
' Wrote:Alpha Code and how did the Zoners get it, and why do the Harvesters want it and why won't the Zoners provide it?
The Alpha code would restore the Harvesters to their former glory. The Harvesters Were stronger than the Dam Kavosh (they copied their tech and used against them, only refined) until they lost the ability to evolve
instantly (due to the loss of the Alpha code).
Harvester evolutionary speed has been decreased drastically. Maybe the Zoners are smart enough not to wake up sleeping demons.
' Wrote:Also, if it came down to it for a Harvester, would they side with a Junker or a Corsair if some were having a 'disagreement'?
Junkers, always. They are our true allies (see: without quotation marks) and corsairs are simply friendly
bioforms.
' Wrote:Other considerations: The Order is closely allied to both the Corsairs (which I've always disliked, but it's not changing) as well as the Zoners. If the Corsairs turned to hostility towards the Zoners, the Order would be displeased, to put it lightly. They rely on the Zoners an awful lot. Likewise, the Harvesters are a group of inhuman machines who prey on humanity, so the Order should be hostile towards them, even if their close allies (the Zoners) weren't. They shouldn't be very pleased with the fact that the Corsairs are having friendly relations with a group that could be considered as big a threat to humanity as the nomads, save for their (currently) limited numbers.
I only know that we consider Order still very questionable. I personally wont comment on this as i lack concrete information. I think our affiliations are for the Order to decide.
(but yeah, they will most likely hate us)
' Wrote:If the Order was destroying a Harvester, would the Corsairs intervene? What about if it was happening in Gamma? If Harvesters had license to fly freely in Corsair space, I don't think they could count on the Order assisting them in that space.
No, i think the corsairs wouldn't stand up against the order cause of some toasters.
But hey, its their call. Unless the Admins put specific affiliations.
It seems to me that all this "role play work" has been done among a few people who know everything about it while the rest of us are pretty lost. The Q&A in this thread should open eyes to that fact. At least I'm not the only one that only first heard of this alpha code thing in this thread.
Now I must raise a question. Since only a select handful seem to have participated in this RP exercise to create this harvester vs zoner conflict, why force it down the throats of everyone else, most of whom have no freakin clue what is going on or what the "history" of only a handful of individuals have any real knowledge of.
If this were truly worked RP wise then I would think a lot more people would know what's going on. The only thing I know about harvesters is one killed me in New York when I'd never seen one before and had no idea what was going on. I still don't, except to say it looks like a poorly thought out attempt to give an enemy to a (mostly) neutral faction.
Tell you what, I've read the new IDs. I'm gonna hit the admins up for a new Neutral ID as soon as they're out, there's no longer any restrictions to what they can fly. Let's find out how long it takes people to create an enemy for Neutral. After all, they're neutral and we can't have that. Let's make another sloppy "role play" to create an enemy for them too.
Quote:Neutral ID
Pilot carrying this ID has declared themselves to be lawful and Neutral towards all factions.
* Can trade
* Cannot ally with anyone
* Cannot fulfill bounty contracts
* Cannot attack other players except in self-defence
* Cannot be attacked by any other players except in Guard systems or by mutual agreement
* Cannot join any faction, except factions that are Neutral themselves
The Neutral ID has been out since forever and is currently employed by the Angels. It was taken out of general circulation to prevent its being employed by individuals who couldn't abide the idea of interacting with their fellow players.
The Harveys gnaw on pretty much everyone and everything that they come across. They execute this motive with questionable levels of win, but that's the root core of it. They are currently giving it to the Zoners for reasons that have been outlined in prior posts, they A) Want something from them B) Don't give a good toss about your political affiliations.
Being a Zoner isn't a get by free card. A number of organizations give you guys mad props for supplies and sundry, but within the Core of Sirius you're tangling with folks who get their breathing air and drinking water from the Junkers, another place where you're fair game. Would you begin this same crusade against the .:j:. if one of them decided that the contents of your hold would look better in theirs?
The Harveys have been shooting on Zoners for some time now and have actually enjoyed a large deal of back and forth interaction with them for it. Do a little backhistory and reading. Heck, do a forum search for alpha code and you'll find out everything you need to know!
Good luck!
Edit: By no means should the width and bredth of the Harvester faction think that I've become even remotely enamored with them. I just wanted to point out a little server reality.
This idea of a War does sound fun, however, before anything like this even remotely comes into play, a couple of points to consider:
People become Zoners precisely because they prefer the lack of "big brother" and government in the Houses, and don't want to get dragged into unnecessary political conflict. A Zoner House is exactly the opposite of this.
Harvesters only represent part of the Junkers, and Zoners who choose to carry out offensive operations against Harvesters represent only part of the Zoners. Don't force everyone to participate in a brawl in which they want no part.
And dusty, although there might be some competition between Junkers and Zoners, it was never all-out hostility.
This idea of a War does sound fun, however, before anything like this even remotely comes into play, a couple of points to consider:
I feel that it's important to note that this 'war' has been ongoing for months now.
' Wrote:Harvesters only represent part of the Junkers, and Zoners who choose to carry out offensive operations against Harvesters represent only part of the Zoners. Don't force everyone to participate in a brawl in which they want no part.
Sometimes life comes to you =/
Harvesters don't really much care if you have a white flag painted on the side of your transport. It's a rough world out there.
' Wrote:And dusty, although there might be some competition between Junkers and Zoners, it was never all-out hostility.
Thanks
I never said there was. I simply demonstrated an example debunking some misplaced notion of universal neutrality providing a free hallpass.
Dusty, I NEVER ONCE said that Zoners are immune from pirating. NEVER. Any who assume so aren't all that keen on role play. I don't even remotely humor the idea that Zoners are immune to piracy. That is so off topic it isn't funny.
My topic is that, realistically speaking, if you give a bunch of individuals a REASON to band together for a common cause, against a common enemy, then they will do so to ensure their own survival. By giving Zoners a common enemy, you give them cause to band together and THAT is NOT what Zoners are supposed to be.
IF this war goes through, and it looks like the small handful of people who "role played" this thing will win their way over common sense and the collective opinion of everyone else on the server, then the next logical step is for Zoners to do what some in this thread keep pointing out. They will form house like organization to combat the threat.
You can't deny human nature by saying "zoners won't do that" because it would be denying human nature. To deny human nature is not logical. Logic dictates a course of events predictable by historical records, and that course leads to Zoners creating a Zoner government.
If you do not want Zoners to have a government then you don't give them an enemy that only a handful of people want. Zoners kept their neutrality by very careful means for many years in Sirius. Why would they suddenly become stupid in the case of the Harvesters? Because a Harvester player said so?
You're assigning characteristics to Zoners of having a government already by:
Saying zoners denied Harvesters this whatever it is they wanted. Who would have the authority to deny anything? Oh yeah, a GOVERNMENT.
By stating that this thingamajigger is on any or all Zoner ships. How did it get there? Did the Zoner Government put it on all ships?
The handful of people who decided to give the Zoners an enemy have already laid the pathwork for Zoners having a government in their own story line and that is where they really messed up the role play. They pulled some bad idea out of the blue to give Zoners an enemy when they shouldn't have any.
Quote from the wiki:
Quote:The Zoners are an independent, neutral group of civilians, traders, and freelancers who attempt to colonize and live in the more dangerous and unsettled areas of the Sirius Sector, away from the Houses and their politics.
That does not say anything about Zoners not governing themselves so it doesn't discount the possibility of a Zoner government, but it's still unlikely. However, I repeat this a lot to make a point; A common enemy WILL create a political situation that WILL result in some kind of central government in order to deal with said enemy.
A more likely scenario, in the spirit of the game, would be that what ever INDIVIDUAL Zoners may have been involved would have worked to maintain Zoner neutrality in the situation. Another thing to consider is that machines deal with 0s and 1s. They are binary and deal in yes or no answers. They don't go from "Q: Is it here? A: 0 (No)" to "Can I blame the Zoners for this?" because that would be out of character for a computer, even one with AI. You're giving human characteristics to computers and that, also, is not part of the game.
For once, I'd like to see someone take each and every one of my arguments in this thread on instead of one or two aspects taken out of context and refuted on its own without taking into consideration the supporting arguments that lead to any given conclusion.
As far as banding together into a House-like organization, the Harvesters aren't a large enough threat to cause such a thing. They're a pretty small group, relatively speaking, and probably less of a threat to Zoner lives and wellbeing than the nomads.