[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
My analysts have presented me with a list of potential concerns they have about your organization's...longevity.[/quote]
Well, I'm sure they all have answers that will make your concerns unwarranted.
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
//Oh, I think the act of simply purchasing any capital ship capable of mounting Class Ten weapons is overkill for a Junker. At most, they would need destroyers for dealing with Nomads and disputes between the Outcast and Corsair alliances on their bases, and those on a limited basis.[/quote]
Well good, you do see the need at least for cruisers and gunboats, looks like you agree with the basic tenet of the faction.:)
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
They are a neutral people, and they live in junk fields and asteroids.[/quote]
Like the Blood dragons, who developed their own battleship, right?:)
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
[*]Their terrain of choice is not suitable for the class of warship. Even the smallest Battleships, (Bounty Hunter Battleships and Osirises) and even Battlecruisers, are too large to operate in the junk fields and asteroid belts the Junkers make their homes in.[/quote]
That's untrue, I fly a BH BC through asteroids all the time, and even my Bretonia BS has gone to the O5 JH and back without issue.
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
They'd be making the exact same mistake the Rheinland Navy made with the GMG in the Sigma-13 invasion.[/quote]
Terrain had nothing to do with that defeat, I guess you don't spend much time in sig 13 but there is no asteroid field in the Yanagi Cloud, it's wide open to big ships.
Rhiendland was defeated by the GMG in a surprise attack, the GMG was supplied for the attack by Kusari.
If you're going to make points try to make sense with them and actually learn the history of the events so you don't misrepresent them, ok?
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
[*]They aren't particularly organized, certainly not enough to provide fuel for something this large, except for one particular organization: The Junker Congress, whom have already stated their rejection of capital ships that large. [/quote]
Totally specious argument, The Junker Congress doesn't supply fuel, companies like the GMG and Samura sell fuel to anyone, even the corsairs and Bretonia.
[*]It would be very simple to reclaim them, and the chance of an entire Battleship escaping is virtually nil. Anything that size going missing would be noticed instantly by its organization of origin, with the possible exception of the Bounty Hunters, and hunted down with swarms of bombers and other capital ships. Chance of success: miniscule at best.[/quote]
That assumes BS's are never alone near the outskirts of a factions ZOI, which simply isn't the case. Another specious argument.
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
[*]It would take an exceptionally large mutiny to take control of a Battleship. Those things are estimated to be crewed by anywhere from 300 (Osiris, Bounty Hunter Battleship) to 2500 (Rheinland Battleship, Zoner Juggernaut) people. For a successful mutiny, just to take the ship and have enough men left over to fly it, you would likely need about two thirds of the crew to defect, assuming combat ability among the crew is near-identical among most individuals.[/quote]
And that's not unreasonable when you have factions of governments declaring entire ships and crews to be traitors and put them under a death penalty, like your faction has done.
Heck, there's people here that have RP'd flying a Bretonia BS as an outcast and all sorts of other silly things, and seeing as how there have been real life successful mutinies (Like the Potemkin for instance) it seems a stretch for you to dictate that what is clearly possible isn't just because you don't like it, doesn't it?
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
Beyond that, such a thing would take large amounts of planning, and people like to talk about things; minimum you'd have 200 people involved, and out of those chances are several of them will shoot off their mouths, and will hence be reported to the high command of whatever organization the Battleship serves, whom will intervene in short order. [/quote]
Actually of the many mutinies that have occurred in real life, some are spontaneous and some were planned, but both methods are clearly possible historically, which kinda shoots holes in this contrived argument of yours as well, doesn't it?.
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
[*]Fugitive State. This is a rogue ship, and, as stated two points above, the higher-ups of whatever organization it originated in would know almost instantly.[/quote]
Maybe, or maybe not, depending how it goes down, but whether they know it deserted instantly or a week afterward, whether they think it was destroyed with all hands by nomads has no bearing once the ship is outside their ZOI.
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
The Junkers wouldn't dare touch a ship that large, even to sell it fuel. [/quote]
Of course they would, they sell to anyone.
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
It would be seen as a hostile act towards the oganization of origin, and aforementioned originator would likely take punitive action on the Junkers as well.[/quote]
Actually they likely wouldn't, any more than the Junkers will stop selling supplies to the outcasts because the blue lotus's killed junkers who didn't pay them 5 mill for the favor of taking their carti to market:)
[quote name='Epyon the Bored' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:07 AM' post='268250']
The Junkers are not stupid and would avoid this at all costs.[/quote]
The Junkers are smart enough to know the outcasts are not going to war with the Junkers in force, which would cripple their carti distribution and much of their own supply lines.
That's assuming they even know the Junkers have that ship, which is unlikely once it's been repainted and has a new VIN:)
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
Junkers have gained nuetrality with almost every faction in existence, and we have exclusive control over the black market trade in every part of sirius with the exception of kusari space.[/quote]
Which has no bearing on this issue.
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
Yes, status. No criminal group we work with will dare pirate or attack us [/quote]
Not an issue with this faction either, and not true, but since this has no bearing on the issue at hand it's pointless to address it.
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
The second we openly attack any lawful ship, we lose the ability to work in their space. [/quote]
Also not true, any Junker who ends up in a firefight with a lawful would be a criminal and probably be KOS by that jurisdiction, but that wouldn't affect all Junkers anymore than if if one Frenchman shoots a US cop that city would arrest or kill every Frenchman it could. Try to have some realistic perspective, OK?
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
We dont need your warships to keep things running like they are.[/quote]
Nobody does, even the clans that have warships, but with some smuggling routes going through Nomad space and the wild attacks killing dozens every day in the Yangi cloud, those warships can save a lot of lives and produce a lot of profit. It seems a pretty good idea to have some, just like the outcasts and corsairs and zoners didn't used to have any but do now..
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
but you cant assume that salvaging derelict starships or scrap fields is just 'point and click, hit the tractor beam, done'.[/quote]
Of course you can, because any ship from a starflier to a outcast dread does it the same way, so either you assume guns and tractor beams are enough, or you assume all ships have arms and claws but some are retractable. Either way works and either way sinks this rather specious point of yours.
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']A warship is not designed for salvaging operations, and it certainly doesnt have the cargo space to make it an efficient smuggling machine.[/quote]
All salvage needs is a tractor beam and a gun, and people make smuggling runs with much smaller cargo bays than most cap ships have, which is around 400 and up.
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
This is where you're most wrong. Junkers OPERATE individually, but we treat one another as family. We back each other up when trouble arises [/quote]
Some do, some don't. You probably haven't noticed, but you can't accurately paint any large group with a single paintbrush.
The Junkers are individuals, and some may have one idea about things and some may have another.
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
The thing that 'saves us' isnt our nuetrality, you're right, it's our discretion. Any illegal activities we undertake are kept very much hidden from lawful eyes, and any time the lawfuls get nosy we hand up a few deadbeat rogues or other criminals to appease them. The law doesnt care who's getting put in jail, as long as -someone- is, it gets them the publicity they need for funding.[/quote]
Your kidding, right? You actually think the lawfuls think Junkers don't break laws? You thing the Liberty factions haven't seen Junker bases receiving loads of carti and selling slaves?
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
You will not have the support of any other junker here if you continue pushing this faction into existence under our name, and you can expect that every one of us will attack your ships on sight if they attempt to ruin our nuetrality.[/quote]
Kinda flys in the face of "treating each other as family":)
You are free to throw RP out the window and be a PvP whore if you want, but don't expect that to stop me from my RP no matter how many childish threats you make.:)
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']Basically, dont do it, if you want to run a bunch of rogue ships (which you cant, because the rest of the server wont agree to it) you need to pick a different faction tag and ID. [/quote]
Basically, if you don't like the faction, don't join.:)
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']Your story behind this faction does not in any way reflect the junkers other than 'we repair your ships' - we do that for everyone that pays.[/quote]
You seem to have a very limited view of the Junkers that in no way reflects what they are. Pity that.
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']The reasons have been quite obviously stated in this thread already - you're only doing this so you can pvp whore with capships from every faction, and the only reason you dont want to use a merc ID is because it restricts you to gunboats. I'm sorry, but if that's your aim you need to find yourself another server to play on, discovery wont have that kind of behavior.[/quote]
It's pretty sad that your psychic powers have left you, and your attempts to read my mind have failed so miserably.:)Hey, should I try with you... Your doing this because you have a small.... Imagination:)
[quote name='Tenacity' date='Jun 7 2008, 12:57 AM' post='268205']
Oh, and one other thing, we already have a small group of heavy warships protecting junker interests, they're called the harvesters, and their backstory is a hell of a lot better than what you've offered here.
[/quote]
The harvesters are PvP and Cap ship whores who are attacking fighters with cruisers, unlike my faction who aren't cap ship whores by comparison since we wouldn't be using our cap ships with the express purpose of killing factions we should be neutral with.
Maybe that's why you think no one can fly a cap without being a whore of some sort, because the harvesters are the example that you think of. Pity.
And they haven't sparked an attack from the lawfuls on the rest of the Junkers in retaliation for their unlawful activity, either, which shows your justification for wanting to PvP whore the CSW isn't real either.
I find your reaction to this attempt at RP kind of sad, your like the villager with the torch, burning the witch who was in reality just a little old lady with a different view that you could neither understand or accept. This kind of intolerance in todays world is quite sad to see..
Look this faction is not going to fly, you cant have a faction that combines a group of people all flying capital ships from different factions all under the Junker banner, this will never get official status.
Your basically asking for the best of everything, you want a faction that can fly any ship, you use the Junker ID because of there big ZoI, what you don't seem to realize is that the Junkers are neutral so any attack on any other faction by your faction would be totally ooRP leaving you no room to use your damn cap ships anyway.
Lets make this simple, you made this faction because you don't like how factions are restricting cap ships, thing is I haven't seen one person in this thread actually wanting to join this fiasco and you will never get official status so give up.
' Wrote:what you don't seem to realize is that the Junkers are neutral so any attack on any other faction by your faction would be totally ooRP
It's a pretty weak argument that has at it's core attacks that have not and will not take place. It's an argument based on a false assumption.
Don't confuse the CSW with the Harvesters or with common pirates, the CSW doesn't fly around whoring like they often do.
' Wrote:you made this faction because you don't like how factions are restricting cap ships, thing is I haven't seen one person in this thread actually wanting to join this fiasco and you will never get official status so give up.
I made the faction because the power grab on cap ships by a few over controlling faction leaders made the opportunity for RP.
I don't need offical status, I made that clear in my first post that you obviously did not read or understand.
I believe many mentionned this already, but, capship whorage?
I know my own group is less or more made out of capital ship, but consider I;
-do not recruit, and discourage people to join up the 106th
-own a group of exactly 3 members only, including myself
-dont just use capital ships...
What is this? You say a rp reason to... own a bunch of cap ship captain defector... using junker ID (which is like "mafia ID")...
Why, I have the feeling it will turn into a "cool free gunboat" faction.
It'll sure be very popular.
Comm ID: Dr. Parvel - Liberty Mental institution
To: Everyone
It is common knowledge that Akumabito has had delusions of grandeur for quite a while now, and is quite unfit to fly a ship, noir to lead a faction. This misguided individual is belived to have escaped from a liberty mental institution several weeks ago and vanished without a trace, until now...
I implore you, pilots of sirius, to bring this man to the proper authorities before he has a chance to infect anyone with ill-concived ideas and misinterpited "knowledge"! Be wary of him, for he has been known to bite those who seek to throw him back into the cell in which he belongs.
Don't let your children be exposed to this man! Don't allow him to stand on your lawn with a sign that states certain facts that are not true at all! For the greater good of Sirius!
I would like first dibs on his ship.
I will put it to better use than is currently used.
I shall melt down the ship and build a ball that we can all play
Space Soccer with. It should be good to see the goals that LSF wins Vs the Xenos.
I can always do with some more loose wires about the place as well.
Hyung Soong
:Edited to be less personal.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
I can't honestly recall a time where I've seen posts as well thought out as Eppy and Tenacities, threads earnestly constructed to grant constructive criticism and advice warped in so moronic a fashion.
To sum it all up really:
' Wrote:They are a neutral people, and they live in junk fields and asteroids.
' Wrote:Like the Blood dragons, who developed their own battleship, right?:)
"Join the [CSW], Where the resourceful and independent go to escape small minds."
Honestly, I would have advised you stick with your small minds while you still had them.
akumabito, i dont know why, but it seems that you still think that onl you have the truth and all other no...
you will make junkers hostile to every faction? because when i see corsair dread under CSW and junker tag+ID, you can be sure that i will scream to all corsairs to destroy that ship. and destroy it again and again and again. because that captain is traitor. and i am sure that will make all outcast,all bretonians, simply all...
and i am sure that pure junkers make the same. because junker try to be hidden, not flyign in battleships...
and maybe you type me that this is weak argument, but what arguments have you ? that you will fly battleship? that you will have battleship group? that are weak arguments...
and your argument that dragons :
' Wrote:They are a neutral people, and they live in junk fields and asteroids.
Like the Blood dragons, who developed their own battleship, right?
you know what difference is between dragons rp and junkers rp on this server ???? yes? you know that? then why you typed this as argument ?...