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Staff roles: Balance Dev
Take away armor upgrades and you've mostly got vanilla in terms of combat lethality.
The speed of snubs really isn't all that different. It's just that the fastest VHFs are a little slower, and the slowest VHFs are a little faster, so they remain competitive (mainly when combined with good nuke use). As mentioned, the Bayonet and another two dozen or so light and heavy fighters are all faster than vanilla's Eagle.
As for hitboxes, the Eagle is relatively easy to hit thanks to its simple, wide design that follows the 'horizontal' weapon placement on most ships. Since it was pretty much the only fighter in vanilla (I'm aware of stuff like missile Dragons, don't worry), that makes it feel as if ships were "all" much "easier to hit".
Now to the point. The pvp in vanilla was much more enjoyable because it was a lot more dynamic. On Disco I find that I get bored of the fight in the middle because it just takes too damn long and start doing stupid stuff. Also the turn rates and all that are too slow to use any of the vanilla tricks (some of them you can see on the vid above).
Quote:@Snake:
Vanilla fights lasted just a few seconds without any chance for tactics.
Wrong. You had to make up your tactics on the fly, having less than seconds to adjust. That's what made the fights skillful in vanilla. Also, vanilla didn't have these dumb rules about 2h off the server when you die hint hint and after you died the person that killed you just left you alone or kept beating the living crap out of you because that was his way of letting you kindly know that you need to be better at pvp, bb l2p plz.
[qyite]The Eagle was about fourteen times faster than anything comparable. A few novelty ships worked if you stuck missiles on them. That about sums up PvP in vanilla.[/quote]
There were exactly three (four if you count HHC Seth) VHFs in vanilla and Eagle and Seth were the only useful ones. Therefore, everyone used it. And nobody had to talk about balance because everyone was using the same ship. only loadouts differed (2x2x2, 4B, 4C, L, C, S... anyone remembers these?), and they were pretty balanced just because you needed to learn each one. And people weren't crying about balance, because if they died they knew they fawked up and just needed more training. Simple as that.
Quote:Another difference would be that killing your opponent is the primary objective, rather than not dying. When you can fight, kill, die, respawn and repeat then that's possible, on an RP server things are different, but still (just in my opinion) taken a little too seriously anyway regarding the fabled blue.
Yeah. Exactly that.
People having their survival instincts kicking in make fights a lot less interesting and a lot less fun. I do also happen to have these (I'm sorry!) and I get flamed for hypocrisy. But the truth is, when you have the rule sword of 2 hours off the server when you die above your neck, and when you don't have the ability to just log another char and kick your killer's arse.
Also a sad reason why survival instincts are so damn annoying is that the hitboxes on Disco are seriously broken and hitting a circling ship is really damn difficult.
Quote:Take away armor upgrades and you've mostly got vanilla in terms of combat lethality.
Instead of armour upgrades removed I'd rather see reloads removed (or for snubs at least during fights, HHC had a nice idea that when you got shot by a player or shot a player, your reloads wouldn't work for 30 seconds).
But of course it would be better to remove both and maybe crank up the ship survivability a tiny bit. And also nerf nukes.
Quote:The speed of snubs really isn't all that different. It's just that the fastest VHFs are a little slower, and the slowest VHFs are a little faster, so they remain competitive (mainly when combined with good nuke use). As mentioned, the Bayonet and another two dozen or so light and heavy fighters are all faster than vanilla's Eagle.
The thing is, vanilla had a little bit different loadout choice thing going on, because my standard setup on Eagle would be 1 tizona, 1 lancer, 4 nomad blasters, skyblast b turret and wasp. On Disco it's not all that possible if you're flying codenames because you can't replace one of your shieldbusters with a missile and keep the last slot for a codename (say, I'm flying a sutinga. I can't have 1 debilitator, 1 missile and 4 dulzians).
Some stuff might be incorrect because last time I played for realz on vanilla was like 3 years ago.
I myself used to be one of the best fighters on vanilla servers. Want to be pro on vanilla servers ? Take an Eagle, blow off its back wings and take Nomad weapons that take no energy and fight a lot. Develop your own tactics. Difference between Disco and Vanilla PvP ?
All Vanilla players used Eagle and Nomad Blasters / Cannons with Tizona Del Cid and Skyblast from the GMG. All that matters was the pilot. Players who used missiles were considered greatest noobs.
Discovery ? All players use different weapons and ships. It is more balanced and thus I believe it should stay the way it is. When I came here from vanilla servers took my wings to Connecticut the fight was extremely different and I realised it is time to chance tactics and thus I joined XTF who seem to be the best fighters around for training and such.
I do agree that Eagle was nerfed quite alot but I believe iRP it is a civilian ship and thus should not be that much agile like the ones faction develop.
(10-05-2014, 04:50 PM)Eonaros Wrote: I myself used to be one of the best fighters on vanilla servers. Want to be pro on vanilla servers ? Take an Eagle, blow off its back wings and take Nomad weapons that take no energy and fight a lot. Develop your own tactics. Difference between Disco and Vanilla PvP ?
All Vanilla players used Eagle and Nomad Blasters / Cannons with Tizona Del Cid and Skyblast from the GMG. All that matters was the pilot. Players who used missiles were considered greatest noobs.
Discovery ? All players use different weapons and ships. It is more balanced and thus I believe it should stay the way it is. When I came here from vanilla servers took my wings to Connecticut the fight was extremely different and I realised it is time to chance tactics and thus I joined XTF who seem to be the best fighters around for training and such.
I do agree that Eagle was nerfed quite alot but I believe iRP it is a civilian ship and thus should not be that much agile like the ones faction develop.
Actually no, Civilian should be more agile as they use "Light" stuff while Military uses "Heavier" ships and cannons.
Just sayin btw I didn't ask for the "Ship" balance, I was more into the agility and the smooth movements, you know not moving like a rectangle but actually like a circle, beeing able to rotate and all, but Discovery disabled this. You can't press strafe up and right together and go diagonally move up, that doesn't work in Discovery and pretty much, sorry to be rude, sux. Realy. Don't you agree?
(10-05-2014, 06:00 PM)Strichev Wrote: And bombers were supposed to kill fighters so that Silver Reaver could single-handedly stomp 6 indie RM pilots above Hamburg, right? Right?
True story, I was there. We even lost a GB on that day...
Yeah that.... That clearly goes against the purpose of a Bomber, lol!
(10-05-2014, 06:00 PM)Strichev Wrote: And bombers were supposed to kill fighters so that Silver Reaver could single-handedly stomp 6 indie RM pilots above Hamburg, right? Right?
True story, I was there. We even lost a GB on that day...
In fairness, the Mamoru was ridiculously small and agile. Haven't flown it in ages, so I'm not quite sure if it's still the case.
Having said that, I also find fights rather tedious now. And it's not just because ships are slower or anything. While I wouldn't mind faster ships and projectiles, a lot of people seem to frown on that and I can sort of see their point. My main issue is with regen. Especially in group fights and when people get refilled. It's just boring and outright frustrating sometimes.