(11-09-2014, 12:31 AM)Technogeist Wrote: How about instead of talking down to a community of fifty people and making yourself look incredibly bigoted and burned, you go use that pro busns knowledge to make a company IRL instead of wasting your time here.
Unless you can't put your money where your mouth is.
(11-09-2014, 12:51 AM)Vogel Wrote: It's hardly a "sim" even in the combat department, even by the standards of the fictional genre. That said, why is it that the mod entertains trading, mining and factions based on finance and insurance if none of that is explored beyond "Let's look special" and "let's buy ships we barely use?" No chance that it can be even 'slightly' educational? No chance that people can put some backbone into the roles they play? Don't answer that one.
Problem is, people play as members of the corporations whilst not having a lick of business sense. In the same way that someone can play as an Outcast fighter jock whilst being the worst player ever. To try and equate in character knowledge with out of character knowledge is the bane of all RPGs.
(11-09-2014, 12:51 AM)Vogel Wrote: The stock market issue is solved by basing it around individual companies. Once you have a basis for company operations and valuation, just dump a bunch of shares into the community and provide generous dividends. The initial value of the stock can be based on the shareholder's equity, and therefore the dividend paid would be a percentage of it. Like any real company, you can issue new shares, split shares, or offer to buy shares back. Either way, the actual "stock market" for each company is composed of players already owning stock selling it off to each other at discounts or premiums. That's entirely 1-on-1; all that's required is to send proof to the company so they don't send dividends the wrong way.
Honestly you could cut a lot of corners when it came to that equity calculation and still arrive at a nice approximation of this, even though it would be impossible to truly compare companies unless they operated under similar standards like GAAP or IFRS.
See, this is the problem. I have absolutely no idea what any of this means. Granted, I am likely dumber than most when it comes to the economics jargon and stuff, but still, this is supposed to be a platform for escapism and entertainment, not a chore to bash your head against on a daily basis.
That said, if running this thing will keep you entertained...
(11-09-2014, 01:13 AM)Derkylos Wrote: See, this is the problem. I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.
Longest Story Ever Told ; dr -
Stocks = "Shares" in a company
Share = Arbitrary "part" of a company owned by an individual. Someone who owns more than 50% of all the shares currently out there ("outstanding") has de facto control of the company because shares are used as votes during certain decisions. Shares are valued based on the "value" of the company.
Dividends = Payments made to the owners of shares, entirely determined by the company, on a share-by-share basis (such as 25% of the share value)
Equity = The amount of "stuff" that can be owned in a company between all assets, vehicles, cash reserves, etc. In a corporation, these are all divided amongst the shareholders.
Share price = Increases as equity increases, because the value of the company is growing
Dividends = Can increase as share price increases, since they are usually percentages of share prices
The point = Players buy stock, get regular dividend payments, and can sell stock to each other in the future, at which point the company is probably bigger, the shares worth more, etc.
The only real issue facing the casual players is the fact that they have no way of "valuing a business," which is where all of this comes from. You can make an extremely basic approximation by having company-owned transports (they act as assets) and having trading/mining "goals" for each player which are paid into the company as predictable "revenues" every week or month. Put the two together and you have an ultra-basic business model: Cash in the company bank, plus the value of the ships = Total shareholder equity. Revenues (drawn from members based on the amount they are supposed to generate) minus expenses (if you pay for damages, ship upgrades, new ships, etc) equals profit. Profit adds to the Cash amount, which is then drawn on to pay out dividends. As the cash amount/number and value of ships goes up, total equity increases, nominal share price increases, and therefore dividends increase, and more people will want to invest in you because they're getting money for it.
Rinse, repeat, Business.
There are all sorts of specifics and nuances but that's really all that's required. If done on a weekly or even monthly basis it doesn't actually take all that much work. What it takes is a willingness to operate the whole thing as an organization, and not a collective of powertraders, or as one person's personal piggybank.
Can hardly call that a functional system, specially within Freelancer economy rules. That is more akin to the "hardcore mode" some people try to play from time to time, simulating losing ships, captures by the enemy, running costs, etc.
Companies in Disco (and almost any organized group) works with simpler "social/commercial" contracts. "What you earn is what you keep", "contribute to the pot (bank account) and then it will be equally redistributed at regular intervals", "0% interest loans" and so on.
There are people who like to play complicated politics (not diplomacy, politics), others want to play some elaborated research project. Others might fancy such economy games that you propose.
If you can surpass the engine limitations, and it's not against the server rules (or works in an unregulated area), then go ahead, find those guys and gals, and play the stock game.
Just don't expect it to be functional. People are a little more pragmatic (read: simple) in their business management in this game.
To that I would counter that having the rudiments of an actual business engages the wider community. Once a faction actually shows that it has "value" and has a simple means of being invested in, any and every player can do so. Even totally new players can buy a few shares in stock and get returns. This also creates concrete situations for roleplaying: First off, shareholders can vote on critical corporate decisions, making "swing-vote" situations possible even with very limited investors. If someone with a large stock portfolio in Universal Shipping breaks the law, commits fraud, treason, or whatever, they now have "assets" in the form of stocks that can be frozen. Governments that pursue aggressive economic policies now have tangible targets, because there are tangible numbers to demand from. Businesses with tangible values are actually able to 'compete' with each other, both for bragging rights and investments by other players: Right now they just fly past each other and wave, like scout pilots in WWI before somebody brought a gun along. Once there's an actual "business" behind it, they'll have vested interests in monopolizing certain trade routes, more of an interest in hiring mercs/demanding government protection from pirates who now hurt an actual bottom line, etc.
It's all about tying the events of the game itself to the wider roleplaying story. The alternative is to be all forum-lancer, which is one of the reasons the server is as dead as it is now. Unless what you do in the server matters, there's no point to having it.