(12-31-2014, 02:42 PM)Toris James Gray Wrote: I believe they shouldn't be able to do that. Lawfuls cannot tax anyone, so why GMG should tax anyone? Demanding levy fines is not the same as taxing.
However, what about Miner ID and GMG ID in that matter?
If you read the Post further up from yours (see below for shortcut) or even read the Bretonian Laws you will see that Taxes/Licences are already in the Game and used by Lawfuls. But in this case it is written down and has clearly defined limits.
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person
Quote:You can't compare an embargo to keep people from (possibly) transporting goods to a war-enemy with a normal highway connecting two houses. I'm pretty sure both Rheinland and Kusari would otherwise cut off GMG from every other house, be it by fines or by other means necessary. That would hurt GMG much more than GMG could ever hurt both these houses. It is not "slightly different", it is ENTIRELY different. In RP we can assume the corporations have deals with GMG to be allowed to make use of the Sigma-13 lanes, just as other "irp" deals might exist to allow usage of other lanes, gates and bases. But if we went and made all those deals "real", we'd just be pushing money from one side to the other and back all the time. It'd be a pointless waste of time and annoyance to a lot of people. GMG, like other lawful entities would never tax ships on a one-by-one basis, such is only necessary, and possible, when it comes to keeping people from doing something - like breaking an embargo.
Besides that, this is quite a badly hidden attempt at creating yet another way for (certain) people to perform lawful piracy without fear of repercussions, aren't there already enough ways to pirate people in Sigma-13? Freelancer Pirates, Junkers, Outcasts, Corsairs, Hogosha (I'd guess?), GC (maybe?), Rheinland pirates (if their ID allows it?)...
If you actually read all my post you will see that I did use the following line:
Quote:Though this is slightly different in that Bretonia and Gallia are at War and this is an attempt to restrict supplies transiting Bretonia and heading to Gallia and vice versa.
I also ended that Post with the following:
Quote:The way I see it, if the Official GMG put in their Laws that anybody transiting Sigma 13 must buy a Licence and the Licence Fee is set, as above, then I would have no problem with it. I do have a problem with people unilaterally deciding what the amount of Fines/Taxes/Licences are, because this can be abused.
I was suggesting that if the Official GMG decided to put an Import/Export Tax for transiting through their Space and it was within reasonable limits as per the Bretonian Embargo Tax/Licence, then I would personally have no problem with it.
As you can see from the highlighted part I agreed that Indies doing it for a possible way to Pirate is, as far as I was concerned, not right.
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person
(12-31-2014, 03:06 PM)St.Denis Wrote: If you actually read all my post you will see that I did use the following line:
Quote:Though this is slightly different in that Bretonia and Gallia are at War and this is an attempt to restrict supplies transiting Bretonia and heading to Gallia and vice versa.
I also ended that Post with the following:
Quote:The way I see it, if the Official GMG put in their Laws that anybody transiting Sigma 13 must buy a Licence and the Licence Fee is set, as above, then I would have no problem with it. I do have a problem with people unilaterally deciding what the amount of Fines/Taxes/Licences are, because this can be abused.
I was suggesting that if the Official GMG decided to put an Import/Export Tax for transiting through their Space and it was within reasonable limits as per the Bretonian Embargo Tax/Licence, then I would personally have no problem with it.
As you can see from the highlighted part I agreed that Indies doing it for a possible way to Pirate is, as far as I was concerned, not right.
I'm really getting tired of idiots telling me I didn't read their dumb posts completly... Lets go into **** ** mode? - Tunicle
I did read your post, and though you say "it is slightly different", you STILL compare it to this situation saying there is "already a precedent in Game" as if there was any reason to even bring it up at all. Make up your mind!
Yes, GMG "could" (in a wider, iRP sense, if they really felt like screwing themselves and their faction) put a tax in place for using the system. Should this be allowed rule/ID-wise? I don't think so. Other factions would also start expecting taxes for usage of their systems and it would end up with everyone everywhere demanding money from people just flying around. We can safely assume that all the usage taxes are already handled in iRP agreements made behind what we play on. Taxes and fines should really be limited to "preventing people from doing something" (unlawful actions), not for "just getting money for nothing".
The Embargo is completly different from this situation. The same goes for smugglers for example. The entity in question is trying to prevent the blockade runner or smuggler from doing what they do. They made a law against it to be able to keep people from supplying an enemy or to keep people from carrying in goods that they do not wish in their house. This is very different from just taxing for usage of a few lanes and gates "because they can".
Fines for unlawful actions are necessary to allow law-enforcement forces to actively go up against these things
Overall this is one of the worst suggestions that I have heard of in a long time to be honest - and that's got be saying something, considering we're talking "Disco" here. If you start going down this spiral, other factions might also wish to have the right to tax for usage of what they claim to be "their" space. Every normal-minded person can see where this might lead. Not to mention, in my opinion the Sigma-13 "highway" already got enough potential for danger, at least once transports won't withstand as much of a pounding anymore - or once pirates bunch up again. Just imagine CR taxing Coronado. I wouldn't want to get anywhere near to that discussion...
(12-31-2014, 02:42 PM)Toris James Gray Wrote: I believe they shouldn't be able to do that. Lawfuls cannot tax anyone, so why GMG should tax anyone? Demanding levy fines is not the same as taxing.
However, what about Miner ID and GMG ID in that matter?
If you read the Post further up from yours (see below for shortcut) or even read the Bretonian Laws you will see that Taxes/Licences are already in the Game and used by Lawfuls. But in this case it is written down and has clearly defined limits.
That's an embargo created so that you don't give cargo to the enemies. Of course, you pay for a license, you get to move through. It's a 1.5 million payment for what, 6 months? Not 6 million for going through Sigma 13.
Really now, after examining the situation, I feel like this is a thinly veiled attempt for angry Kruger Why mention?- Tunicle folk to metagame and target their oorp adversaries, honestly. It's going nowhere, frankly, and the best course of action is to not change the ID.
Mr. presumptuous in the honorific - Tunicle Tunicle, tear down this thread. Whilst we are now going in more circles and thus possibly need to close the thread, not sure tear it down is appropriate. one of the more clam threads of this nature I have see on here. - Tunicle
Sigma 13 is not GMG owned system, so whatever taxes or fines happen it won't be in sigma 13 because its not GMG owned system. Do you people even read before you scream and shout?