It is clear @Auzari, that your hate for the CoF clearly made you overlook that the banning the Zoners from house space was directed at an entirely different person. It is also clear, that rejecting house-law is not equal to rejecting any authority.
As I was pointing out one of the key components to Zoner lore is self-governance. Now, how you equate that to anarchy is beyond me. Rejecting house-law is, albeit, a necessary not a sufficient condition.
I have also pointed out the key factors in forming the CoF, which you seem to have missed. Now, of course due to limiting factors the CoF is not OORPly democratic. It does however, consist of all official zoner factions and the Administrators of Freeports. So there should be a diverse number of people, even though, some of them, such as @Omicron, have used the CoF-chat to further the agenda of their primary faction.
As for versatility @Croft , yes the zoner ID opens up the possibility for a wide variety of RP. Researcher, Explorer, Trader and more. But as I pointed out, they do all adhere to the same principal values, consequently portraying them as a united faction is not as far fetched as some would suggest.
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(05-23-2017, 06:17 PM)Major_Mayhem Wrote:
It is clear @Auzari, that your hate for the CoF clearly made you overlook that the banning the Zoners from house space was directed at an entirely different person. It is also clear, that rejecting house-law is not equal to rejecting any authority.
It is clear @Major_Mayhem , that your grammar clearly made your sentence seem like it was directed at me, it lacked commas and the name was on a different line because of bad font size choice.
Quote:Zoners are neither Anarchist @Auzari nor should they be banned from house-space
I can hate the concept all I damn like, it doesn't mean any opinions was invalidated at all. You're still putting people in a ""special authority"" spotlight, it doesn't how much you candycoat it, because it still is effectively a hierachy. It's still law, it's still control, you are telling people what to do and what not to do.
Quote: So there should be a diverse number of people, even though, some of them, such as @Omicron, have used the CoF-chat to further the agenda of their primary faction.
lol whenever has core been able to use that chat before hostilities? and Zoners shouldn't be biased to the Order at all, you need to make your own decisions, not let others hinder yours. No other faction should have OORP influence at all. Saying that just makes me think that CoF is even more redundant if it's being used as a pedestal for other factions, or their friends.
CoF is ridiculous as it ruins all concept of Zoner Neutrality, makes Zoners damn well overpowered verses indies and extremely vulnerable to shenanigans by officials. People act like Zoner neutrality is some OORP right rather than an InRp rule.
What Zoners should be: A roleplay heavy faction of independents.
What Zoners are, frequently: A means to get away from PVPing whilst powergaming ridiculously broken godlike capabilities and cheat any personal risk to characters. I've seen so many Zoner groups appear who are meant to be God's gift to the sector.
There are still a great many good Zoners.
Source: 3 IRL years of running a Zoner faction, being on the CoF, and then ignoring due process requests whilst on there, because most of them were patently absurd.
Postscript: The fact that official Zoner groups do stuff like blocking uncooperative Zoners out of Zoner bases is also patently absurd. This is not discovery circlejerk 24/7.
Well said Taeni about how Zoners should roleplayed . Sadly back 18 years ago the Hunter Association server did not have ID tags so you had to play Zoners with out the iff and ID it was vanilla. we just played as the faction so this is not my first rodeo so to say as a zoner but did not have any capital ships that was not till later when they made the Antares mod that cap ships came about and you have to find a battleship license before you could buy one. also the Hamburg server with Das Order some 20 years ago. OOOOPSS slipped back in time. Gah I feel rreeeeeeally old now . Any way lets agree that Zoners are really screwed up at this moment. also all of the rest of the faction are screwed up as well along with the dev and admin. you ask way I say that . well lets just say the house space shoot first and ask questions later is not the most diplomatic the always point out that the zoner in those neph where arrogant. well sad to say house space is just as arrogant and there has been a few times I would have gained so much satisfaction just spacing them. the dev and admins validated their arrogants by nerfing the neph in house space. the point of freelancer is interaction and I have been told that more then once here and house space does nothing with out 4 or 5 battleships against a VFH. I have sat and watched that play out more then once in time. the dev and the admin did not need to come in and stick pacifiers in house space mouths because they had to fight a few nephs. had anyone thought that maybe the actions in house space towards anyone that does not have a NAVY tag brings a lot of that on themselves. I know that was years ago and still to this day zoners are punished. I think it is time that everyone bury the past and move on but hey what do I know this is only a lowly Zoners opinion
The Zoners are a diverse group of individuals who, for various reasons, have decided to live in the wild and unregulated systems outside of House control. Over time, the various Zoner communities have evolved to adapt to the unique geopolitical situations present around the various Freeports. While many Zoners simply enjoy the freedom away from stifling House laws, others have intvested in private deep space exploration ventures, either for the adventure or to further an interest in deregulated scientific discovery.
1.
a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems.
"he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy"
synonyms: lawlessness, absence of government, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, riot, rebellion, mutiny, disorder, disorganization, misrule, chaos, tumult, turmoil, mayhem, pandemonium
"the country is threatened with anarchy"
antonyms: government, order
2.
absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
I don't see how Zoners aren't anarchists, nor did I state anywhere that they're banned from House Space. If anything, I can only imagine the regional Zoners (eg, Zoners of Taus, Omegas, Omicrons, Indy worlds) would band together in dire needs, and would have different laws to adapt to their geopolitical surroundings. Like, if an Outcast screwed up in the Indy Worlds Freeport, you don't want to apply consequences to /all/ Freeports because they'll just blow the one up in Tau-37 to which I think there was some kind of infocard about the Outcats getting annoyed at BHG parking there, same issue with the Corsairs and Omicron Theta - according to infocards - they have been voting whether they'll take over/remove the Freeport or not because of BHG basing there. Contrary to belief, the Corsairs aren't their bestest friends either.
I mainly hate CoF because of the ridiculous 'rp' decisions that they do (militarizing zoners against the core???). Protecting Zoners is one thing, but waving your dong around over others and encouraging them to be totally be doing [this] action, is another, it really seems to be some kind of weak government. Zoners should be getting other people to do the work for them, like having the Order shoot the Core, not getting involved themselves. It isn't their thing to get into politics.
One biggest note is that Zoners don't get any say in it, as it seems to be administrators only and leaders - which is essentially creating a hierachy (why is osi or taz even in there, one is a religion/resides only in baffin who apparently avoids zoner stuff? and one is a corp that happens to hire people of zoner origin??)
Administrators and CoF is "made more important and to look special, giving the last word" - which goes against the Zoner way if you ask me. Banding all Zoners together from one specific region to kick stuff out is ok though, such as infested pilots, gallic spies, Zoners aggrovating the locals in a specific region, whatever.
Then again, it's probably due to the whole admin paperwork stuff, to make FR5's, whatever, since its unrealistic to have a mass Zoner saying with the way the community works. We all know indies can do some of the most stupidest stuff and said people shouldn't really be able to make uneducated sayings, but that's really on them if they mess up.
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Saying that just makes me think that CoF is even more redundant if it's being used as a pedestal for other factions, or their friends.
1. If you hadn't noticed, the CoF now has in place a system similar to that in order to deal with issues to each respected sector. Aazlot for all Western Freeports and Livadia Shipyard, myself for all Eastern Freeports, both of us excluding Freeport 1. Is it our rule is the law? No. Not in the least. For myself even I wont be the last word over all others in the Eastern Sirius Freeports cause its not how I believe things should be run, BUT there needs to be someone to tell those who fly around in Nephilims just shooting everything (Its happened to many times to count) to say NO and put the foot down. You ask anyone in the CoF if they're tired of seeing/hearing that, you'll get nothing but one big fat Yes.
2. ridiculous 'rp' decisions that they do (militarizing zoners against the core???). SO we should just roll over virtually every time is what I'm seeing yes? Its not ridiculous to offer proposal after proposal to keep the peace just to see them rejected cause its all not 100% in favor for the opposing faction. If it is I guess we're all living in Bizzaro world here.
3. We dont see much of a soul nowadays speaking out against our choices and I have never seen (In my time) the CoF rejecting any input from other Zoners. THey just don't do the most important thing, Speak Up.
4 & 5. Ok but yes a good reason for the CoF is to be able to push for FR5's and the like.
6. I don't see it.
(05-23-2017, 06:32 PM)Tænì Wrote: CoF is ridiculous as it ruins all concept of Zoner Neutrality, makes Zoners damn well overpowered verses indies and extremely vulnerable to shenanigans by officials. People act like Zoner neutrality is some OORP right rather than an InRp rule.
What Zoners should be: A roleplay heavy faction of independents.
What Zoners are, frequently: A means to get away from PVPing whilst powergaming ridiculously broken godlike capabilities and cheat any personal risk to characters. I've seen so many Zoner groups appear who are meant to be God's gift to the sector.
There are still a great many good Zoners.
Source: 3 IRL years of running a Zoner faction, being on the CoF, and then ignoring due process requests whilst on there, because most of them were patently absurd.
Postscript: The fact that official Zoner groups do stuff like blocking uncooperative Zoners out of Zoner bases is also patently absurd. This is not discovery circlejerk 24/7.
1. Even in Neutrality, a voice to speak for others in dialogue MUST be present regardless of who it is. Only the uninformed or uneducated use such to get past things etc.
2,3, & 4. No argument to that, its truthfully spot on 'cept for the powergaming Godlike capabilities. I've not seen it.
5 & 6. I cant comment against these cause Ive only been in the CoF for a relatively short time.
7. Really? I can point that bit at a lot of different factions but Zoners/CoF? Come on...
Fox did ask your group to push in my behalf for FR5's if I wanted FR5's I would have joined a faction that live by them and I think the afore mentioned godlike power is not the game play but the self incursion of CoF running things at least that is how i interpret it. I am sorry but this looks more and more like a attempt for a power grab it may not be now but later it will be perverted to it. "The greatest of storms ... are announce with the slightest of breeze"