' Wrote:If you've ever flown a Rhein, you'll also know that it's probably the best battleship in the mod, too. If you want a Rheinland capship, go for RH pirate cruiser, it looks more junkish, quite possibly re-assembled from other rheinland caps, and won't make the RM get to murderizing you. I understand that junkers could easily pull out all of the pieces for a RM battleship, but they don't have the plans for it. They'd piece it together by what they thought should work, seeing themselves as better engineers than the original designers (read the infocards, the elitism is pretty obvious).
As for the Firefly, it fits with junkers perfectly. Go for it.
Ok, the 'it's sold on our base' thing is getting pretty old, too. You know that example about Kurile, a Samura planet that sells Vengeances? You know what else it sells? The Anubis Order Very Heavy Fighter. If you can tell me honestly that Samura has a right to it because its sold on their base, you're hella deluded. The same goes for a few other ships, like, oh, how the Collector is only sold on Junker bases, yet Hogosha are supposed to use it too despite being hated enemies, or that the only place you can buy RH capships are on corporate bases... so can Daumann use them then? Even the ones allowed by the ID? Hell no. You buy stuff based on RP, not on where it is. Disco has its quirks, don't sacrifice RP to them.
For weaponry, loot it. Junkers are ragtag, so give them one thing here, another there, and the only thing I could reasonably expect you to mount more than one of would be A) Barragers, they're spammed by your NPCs, or B) Transport turrets, as there are no viable alternatives. Even your gunboat stuff should be ragtag, go for a pair of basics, maybe a Liberty, maybe a missile turret, you get the idea. Oh wait, junker gunboat is the mining ship... nvm that bit.
Oh yeah, if you REALLY need that battleship, go for zoner juggernaut. Despite being from Battlestar Galactica, it kind of looks the part. Not that you really need one, after all, who the hell would it ever fight?
Just as a general announcement--neither I nor any members I know of have any intention of buying a Rheinland battleship. What WOULD we use it for? If it ever happens, it will be a role play device and we will have a purpose for it--in Puerto Rico--I'm not seeing this as a huge threat to anyone.
Not planning or advising anyone to buy ships "just because" they are on our bases. We have ships we recommend-- the Rheinland Pirate Cruiser can only be held by the heads of faction and base adjudicators and the adjudicators can't use them away from their bases. So its conceivable a few could be bought by "movers and shakers". Base locations and ship availability here aren't always congruous--I think about what my mixes are and what the thinking is behind them. We will encourage others to do the same. I really want to avoid micromanagement--it doesn't help people have fun.
But I am equally tired of the "Junkers only use mismatched crappy things" argument as well. How the heck do they have their own ship designs based on alien technology then? All the Junkers ships aren't personally hand built from salvaged scrap that an individual Junker collects--and if they are that makes the Junkers the smartest groups in all of Sirius then. It's also ironic I'm always hearing the "use a mix of weapons" cause that was Junkers would do but DON'T use Outcast or Corsair or Hessian or Zoner, etc. etc., (meaning "good" ) weapons.
We might as well just say, "The Junkers are inbred Hillbillies and to stupid to maximize their assets." Pffft.
I understand the rationale of the Galactica suggestion but for myself its a little to "not freelancer" for me. Hehe--and what the heck would the Zoners ever fight? (Go Harvesters!)
The real solution is have a Junker battleship and cruiser designed. I wouldn't care what they were as long as they were distinctive. That's just my wishful thing though.
Quote:It's also ironic I'm always hearing the "use a mix of weapons" cause that was Junkers would do but DON'T use Outcast or Corsair or Hessian or Zoner, etc. etc., (meaning "good" ) weapons.
About this bit, I think they mean they don't want to see a Junker Eagle (or such) with two tizonas and 4 kraken IIs.
When my junker was in a Collector, he used an Archangel, a Solaris, a Cerberus, tizona turret and Vengeance turret. When he fired, it looked so colourful and random with the different effects flying around.
That's what I think "junkerising" your weapons mean. Getting one of a few different weapon types, mixing them together.
My little view that could seem to contradict Tink. But, yes we are all different.
A Battleship has a real use only if, one day, the Congress gather enough money and assets to buy a home system. It is written so that everything is clear from the start.
But at the start, they won't be any so removing it is not a big deal, really.
Negociation, temporary alliance, diplomacy will determine what ships from other factions a junker can have or not (independant or in the Congress). It has always been like this and nothing will change.
And If one day Puerto Rico become a secure home, we will have a real assets to exchange : a place to repair unlawful ships and hide them, as specified on the infocard of Vierques. In such a case, maybe, i said maybe, other options will come.
Puerto Rico and a flagship is the dream, not the actual situation. The members, and all Junkers have their role their voice and vote to mold the dream.
"Perfection, honesty, devotion" "Immortality is our subconscious main concern" "To change the system, you have to be inside the system and play by the rules"
you see, no one respects Junkers, no one wants to see them powerful, but all use their bases.
my Junker float from our base to base, and he sees traders, corsairs, outcasts, zoners, roques, hackers and many others docking on our bases.
why they don't go to manhatten?
he saw navy or once corsair hunting not far from base.
what can he do? he is not skilled pilot and in his crappy collector he doesn't have big chance to win. he may only try to salvage himself.
once he saw .:j:. tagged cruiser docking on Rochester and he was proud that Junkers have got such ships.
he would like to see big battleship in Puerto Rico near Texas jh that shot on sight any unfriendly who enters our home.
you see, navy would want to control our system, they should know that we can defend, and it won't be easy cake.
so, my junker is independent person, his life is not easy,he doesn't have family and he cares only about his business, but he would like to see powerful Junker organisation which shows him how to be proud Junker.
Those factions you mentioned are business partners of the Junkers. Why don't you like them there?
By the way, it is against the server rules for those unlawful factions to dock on Manhattan. Your point is silly.
Also, a single battleship wouldn't stop the Liberty Navy from ripping apart the junkers in Puerto Rico. Those "unlawfuls" that you dislike so much help to defend against Bounty Hunter/occasional navy patrol that might discover the base.
Quote:It's also ironic I'm always hearing the "use a mix of weapons" cause that was Junkers would do but DON'T use Outcast or Corsair or Hessian or Zoner, etc. etc., (meaning "good" ) weapons.
Tinkerbell, I have nothing against you using mix of guns. But I imagine a Junker would have like 1 Natterturn Zwei, 1 adv. Splitter, 1 Debilitator, 1 Kraken, 1 Destroyer and one Buckshot - for example.
But looking at 4 Krakens + 2 Tizonas is not a nice view to watch.
You can even mix these two, but be sure to implement some other guns on your ships.
Though Junkers wouldn't have any problems to acquire both of these weapons, in RP.
So, as far as RP goes, you are perfectly fine with any of these.
Also, you are right. Junkers shouldn't have a uniform loadout. They should use mix of 3-4 weapons.
To summarize, I think this is a very very good faction proposal. A lot of effort invested in it too.
I like your new ship policy, about one BS and 6 Cruisers.
All in all - two thumbs up.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
Personally i don't see how junkers could be hillbillies.
Look at what they do they go into radiation, hazardous waste, unexploded ordinance and come back again and again, once would be luck but repeatedly that means that they are intelligent. Plus do you think all the tech manuals were taken/destroyed out of those wrecks?
They have reverse enginered alien ships to build new ships that takes inteligence, not uncle/cousin billy bob in the backyard tinkering with his pickup truck to see if it would go fester.
Those factions you mentioned are business partners of the Junkers. Why don't you like them there?
ok i'll just park my car in your front yard and see how you like it, even business partners deserve respect from each other and how many people respect the junkers? I guarantee you alot less than should.
I loved shane and tyro's posts...you guys do get it.
They are really into their play and it shows. It's guys like this that made me want to do the faction--not some dark motive to take over Sirius and feed a swelling ego.
I picked "Tinkerbell" as a name because it was not aggressive and I came here planning on running a trader. I didn't realize what it meant by "role play" when I arrived--I had never seen a genuine rp Freelancer server before. I just thought "role play" meant not a pvp fighter jock server. I picked Junkers as my faction because they weren't a big, attention-getting, "powerful house" and could move around and smuggle and it spiced up the trade life some. I also picked it because I didn't see a lot of Junkers and I didn't want to just "be one of the herd".
I noticed that most Junkers here were isolationists. They really interacted very little with one another. One or two had a friend or partner but most just quietly traded. Wasn't at all like the other factions that collaborated and worked together.
One night I got to talking with Oniros after fighting one of his lawful characters and he mentioned how he thought a good Junker faction had a lot of potential and I said I agreed but didn't see how it could happen because Junker players were so disjointed and uncommunicative and combat weak. He mentioned that he was getting tagged a "Junker Guard" and we got to thinking how that could be the device to create a faction around--so that we didn't take over the Junkers as a whole--just created a new venue for some.
We made a couple of posts and suddenly new Junkers started popping up and players started PMing me in-game. Seems there were a lot of Junkers who wanted a faction. When I actually posted that we were thinking of starting a faction, I learned why Junkers all were laying so low.
I started getting in-game rants from players, forum comments, rudeness and anger. Not mostly from Junkers (though the "vanilla only!" crowd had their moments) but from players with powerful characters in the big leagues--Outcasts, SA, Corsairs, BHs, Zoners, etc.
It was the guys flying around in the capital ships that were shouting, "Careful, Junkers will unbalance the game!" I was stunned. At one point Oniros considered just forgetting the faction idea and just role playing his own character quietly as before--because of all the hostility. So we kind of rallied each other.
What motivated me was the people who wanted a faction because they loved playing Junkers but were intimidated by the "big boys" into feeling second string (go back and read shane's and tyro's replies now) and the other thing was the attempts to "quiet me down" and stop me. That's why i picked the motto under my signature below.
Having the 500 million application fee instituted the day before I posted my initial faction request was another surprise.
But 'ya know what? We raised the money, worked hard to address balance issues and be transparent and honest about our goals and most importantly we have a positive reason to do this--to let other players who are missing out have some more fun too.
Don't miss the forest looking for the trees, this is a good idea.
To all the people who have let me know privately (and publicly) how much they like the idea, thanks!
I would like the admins to consider locking this thread soon so we can just wait for their response.
I am not hearing any new issues now and I think the proposal is solid and our responses to comments already posted have made our position more than clear.