' Wrote:But this still affects them, even if they don't abuse their ship. Sure, that's cool that you and your friends got together and roleplayed out building a cap ship. I bet everyone had a good time doing it too. But not everyone would have fun doing that, and the indies, well... there's no way you're going to convince them of that.

The key to roleplay is it has to be fun. If noone is having fun they're not going to do it. Keep in mind, for one person to raise enough cash to equip and fit a battle ship, it's going to take weeks, maybe even months. You can't tell someone, "Oh hey, by the way, you have to bring me 40k of this item, 20k of this item... etc." That's why people buy things, so they don't have to make it themselves. If an admin wants to facilitate building a ship, awesome. I'm all about it.

Just keep in mind who you are affecting when you ask for legislation like this. Yes sure, it may make the game enjoyable for you, but what about the 1000 or so other players on the server, Hell, more than half of them will never see this thread.

' Wrote:In general, I stand on the side of those quoted below, but my ideas differ.

In the original post, you mentioned a Cap sitting outside manhattan, blasting any lawfuls it saw. Did you do something about it? Did you stand up for them? No. At least from what you wrote it is evident that you took no action. And why not, because the rules said so? That's rediculous. "Hey man, keep shooting at those cops, and the debris that will be the remainder of your hull will find itself atomizing in that planets atmosphere." He's either going to shoot you, or go way, but at least you did something. And if he does shoot another police, well, you told him you were going to take him down. So do it.

Even if the person is a member of a faction that's allied with yours, if they're using their cap ship in a ridiculous or ebarrasing manner, beat them down and drag them off somewhere else. What, pirates can't police their own?

Further more, I think the above mentioned situation is much better roleplay than comming to the forum and asking for heavier restrictions on capital vessels. You're either taking up for the little guy, or cleaning up the mess of an errant faction member. That not only makes you friends, and opens opportunities for diplomatic negotiations, it shows the offender the err of their ways much more efficiently than an Admin Sanction and Detainment, which they are just going to complain about on the forums anyway.

I've not played much on this server yet, because I'm still getting set up, but one thing I've learned, (and I hope you don't just take my word for it, but actually try it and see if it works for you as well,) the best way to deal with a TWINK is to stand up, dust yourself off, and beat some sense into him. If you can't do it, put a bounty on him. Do you have Allies? Call for aid. Use your knowledge of the universe and have him chase you into a guard system where he will be instantly liquidated. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

' Wrote:1. I've been here longer than you so I'm more important. However I give my blessing to these words of yours. Consider yourself among the favoured.

2. Factions have the most capability to deal with "misuse" as they have plenty of resources, including varied ship types for each situation, skype chats so things can be co-ordinated, etc. However, faction members are also independents. Just because I am in one faction that I admire doesn't necessarily mean that I wish to accord a significant number of rights on the server to all factions. Plenty of factions have players who cause as much annoyance with a few fighters as any lone player in a cruiser. I refer, of course, to the time-honoured tradition of the PvP gank minus RP which I have, even in the last week, experienced at the hands of players from a faction of which I am myself a member. (A RP gank is another matter)

3. There are many players who hide behind faction tags to make life miserable for others here and have long traditions of bossing people around with flimsy RP justifications because they equate obedience with respect.

4. Having said that, faction membership isn't about conformity, in my opinion. As you said, players come and go, but faction members generally stay. Factions can grow organically to facilitate this. This belief in their having a greater investment in the game is one reason why they feel they lose out more when the occasional unflushed turd shows up in Manhattan orbit playing "Half-Life 4 - Freeman Gets A Cruiser".

5. The bit you quoted about being new to Discovery was aimed at factions that arrived here wholescale and expected to be held in awe because they were the elite on some PvP server elsewhere. They could ruin the game for others, and themselves, with alarming frequency.

6. As for rules: you shouldn't, and don't, need a rule that allows you to prevent others from harming gameplay for all and sundry in a manner other than what is covered by the rules as they stand now. Even the most unimaginative RP (which even a incredibly brilliant RPer such as myself can be guilty of) can allow you to do so in-game. Just tread softly - and carry a <strike>big stick</strike> few bombers.

' Wrote:Factions have the most capability to deal with "misuse" as they have plenty of resources, including varied ship types for each situation, skype chats so things can be co-ordinated, etc. However, faction members are also independents. Just because I am in one faction that I admire doesn't necessarily mean that I wish to accord a significant number of rights on the server to all factions. Plenty of factions have players who cause as much annoyance with a few fighters as any lone player in a cruiser. I refer, of course, to the time-honoured tradition of the PvP gank minus RP which I have, even in the last week, experienced at the hands of players from a faction of which I am myself a member. (A RP gank is another matter)

Quote:And anyways, as Sindroms said, this is not about all indies, or all players for that matter, but this is a plead for granting some sort of possible measure against people who abuse their capital ships.

Quote:quickly arguments come up like "we are stronger than you, we can bully you out, if we like", "we ll turn it the way that it ll we ll have a right to force you out, cause you have violated those three major rules" - basicly everything works.

they ll work hard to make the whole playground THEIR playground. so that in the end, the playground isn t just a playground with three rules anymore, but a playground with three rules + the gang rules.

Quote:The bit you quoted about being new to Discovery was aimed at factions that arrived here wholescale and expected to be held in awe because they were the elite on some PvP server elsewhere. They could ruin the game for others, and themselves, with alarming frequency.

' Wrote:I will answer to this in the order you placed your paragraphs:

1. I've been here even longer than you. I don't care if you're a mod or a simple member; saying that disgraces you, this community, and its members. Seniority may have its benefits, but it doesn't give you the right to be an ***hole.

Quote:6. I don't quite understand this statement. You seem to contradict yourself. I think you meant to say that:

"Not even the most unimaginative RP (which even a incredibly brilliant RPer such as myself can be guilty of) can allow you to do so in-game."

If that is so, I disagree. If someone is making this game unplayable for you, something should be done. Albeit this something should involve contacting an admin first, not taking it into your own hands.

' Wrote:You might take offense at this, but 95% of faction capital ships are never abused.

' Wrote:the whole discussion about spoiling the fun, self restrictions, good RP etc. can be compared to a childrens playground.

imagine that - there is a playground with the common rules: - no fighting, no smoking, no alcohol. - very basic rules to ensure the peace and safety - these are the official rules.

usually the playground is populated by a bunch of children, each one minding its own business, sometimes playing together, sometimes alone. - thats like when a fresh server starts. - everyone is a loner. - people play by the rules, cause these are the "official rules".

then, some of the kids form up a more permanent gang. - they establish a gang structure and setup "their" rules that they add to the official rules. - so far so good.

they do then claim a piece of this official playground for themselves. - they need it, cause they are a gang of kids that sticks together - and by sticking together, they also create a "we" and a "them", two sides that hasn t been there before.

so they get their share of the playground. - they become established, part of this playground. kids around don t even remember a time when the playground existed without this gang, - they always sit around in this playground, night and day. - sometimes they let people join them, - but they don t want just everyone, they employ a structure, a hierachy so that a new member must work his way up. - he starts as a nothing, lesser than the casual kid .. and he must prove himself.

still - so far so good. becoming a member is voluntary, those that do not wish to join keep playing in the playground by the official rules "no fighting, no drinking, no smoking"....

but then comes the time that this gang thinks that its unfair. - that is usually the time when it consists of mostly people that "worked their way up". - they think that its somewhat wrong that THEY have to obey all those additional rules, the hierachy, the ridig structure - while those casual kids that just come there to obey the three major rules do what they like. - they use all the toys in the playground without ever working their way up to be "allowed" to use them.

and that spoils their fun. - so they start asking those casual kids to obey THEIR rules, too. - which those kids don t understand, cause they never wanted to become member of that gang.

quickly arguments come up like "we are stronger than you, we can bully you out, if we like", "we ll turn it the way that it ll we ll have a right to force you out, cause you have violated those three major rules" - basicly everything works.

they ll work hard to make the whole playground THEIR playground. so that in the end, the playground isn t just a playground with three rules anymore, but a playground with three rules + the gang rules.
this example is NOT disco and its NOT freelancerr as we play it. - our situation is more complex, we re not kids, and the server is not a playground as such. in that example however.... who has a right to do what they do?

certainly, kids that violate the three rules must not play in that playground, thats what the rules are for. - but what about kids that never violated those three rules? are they allowed to use all the toys in this playground?.... or should the gang tell them what to use and how long they may use it.

' Wrote:I will answer to this in the order you placed your paragraphs:

1. I've been here even longer than you. I don't care if you're a mod or a simple member; saying that disgraces you, this community, and its members. Seniority may have its benefits, but it doesn't give you the right to be an ***hole.

' Wrote:Surprise is a very important tactic, especially when your intention is to kill your quarry. Sometimes, verbal deliberation isn't even necessary. My trade character, for example, when he drops out of a trade lane, isn't going to stop. He'd engine kill, thrust up to max speed, and begin firing at the pirates who are after him, without pause or word. This, however is because he comes from a heavy military background, and truely feels that he would be victorious. His entire life has been engrained with "Fight to the death! Never give in!" This is just 1 trade ship, of his X number of ships, the rest of which are combat oriented. Further, he has fought along side, as well as against many pirates, and knows that many would just as soon kill him after they get what they want as let him go.

' Wrote:And n00bl3t, why, that's some first class sarcasm there. I think I'll side with you on all issues for now out of fear of your sharp wit.