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+---- Thread: It's not too late to fix Caps (/showthread.php?tid=149441)
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Thunderer - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 05:23 PM)hubjump Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:09 PM)Thunderer Wrote: If cerberuses have a greater range and efficiency than primaries, while retaining a comparable refire and speed, then what is the point of primaries?
increase power cost slightly, but not too much?
Possibly
That doesn't solve anything, though. If they are more efficient than prims, then prims still don't make sense. If they are less efficient than prims, then cerbs make no sense, them currently being in use exactly because they are the most efficient BS guns.
I would rather nerf their range from 3.5K to 2.5.
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Hubjump - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 07:57 PM)Thunderer Wrote: That doesn't solve anything, though. If they are more efficient than prims, then prims still don't make sense. If they are less efficient than prims, then cerbs make no sense, them currently being in use exactly because they are the most efficient BS guns.
I would rather nerf their range from 3.5K to 2.5.
This could be a good step to see which direction capital ships need to go.
Instead of trying to make a big fix, we can try baby steps such as this to see if this will work...
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Chills - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 07:57 PM)Thunderer Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:23 PM)hubjump Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:09 PM)Thunderer Wrote: If cerberuses have a greater range and efficiency than primaries, while retaining a comparable refire and speed, then what is the point of primaries?
increase power cost slightly, but not too much?
Possibly
That doesn't solve anything, though. If they are more efficient than prims, then prims still don't make sense. If they are less efficient than prims, then cerbs make no sense, them currently being in use exactly because they are the most efficient BS guns.
I would rather nerf their range from 3.5K to 2.5.
This wont make it better for heavy battleships. The reason why cerbs were better for balance is still the same: They can fire them and deal damage while they are on a range (3 - 3.5k) where they are able to dodge aswell. With a turtle I was able to compete with togos and ossis on a pure Cerb basis when I kept this range. Now light/med bs are better in everything except in the so much hated buttcruising/cloaking.
Oh hell 11 pages and Wesker didn't write anything but in the first page.
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Vendetta - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 07:57 PM)Thunderer Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:23 PM)hubjump Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:09 PM)Thunderer Wrote: If cerberuses have a greater range and efficiency than primaries, while retaining a comparable refire and speed, then what is the point of primaries?
increase power cost slightly, but not too much?
Possibly
That doesn't solve anything, though. If they are more efficient than prims, then prims still don't make sense. If they are less efficient than prims, then cerbs make no sense, them currently being in use exactly because they are the most efficient BS guns.
I would rather nerf their range from 3.5K to 2.5.
I'd rather have them at 2.5 too. They shouldn't be out-ranging primaries in any situation.
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Chills - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 08:35 PM)Vendetta Wrote: I'd rather have them at 2.5 too. They shouldn't be out-ranging primaries in any situation.
Can you please say why you think it should be that way and what the benefits for the cap combat are? It's hard to find a counterargument this way
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Thunderer - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 08:28 PM)Chills Wrote:(04-18-2017, 07:57 PM)Thunderer Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:23 PM)hubjump Wrote:(04-18-2017, 05:09 PM)Thunderer Wrote: If cerberuses have a greater range and efficiency than primaries, while retaining a comparable refire and speed, then what is the point of primaries?
increase power cost slightly, but not too much?
Possibly
That doesn't solve anything, though. If they are more efficient than prims, then prims still don't make sense. If they are less efficient than prims, then cerbs make no sense, them currently being in use exactly because they are the most efficient BS guns.
I would rather nerf their range from 3.5K to 2.5.
This wont make it better for heavy battleships. The reason why cerbs were better for balance is still the same: They can fire them and deal damage while they are on a range (3 - 3.5k) where they are able to dodge aswell. With a turtle I was able to compete with togos and ossis on a pure Cerb basis when I kept this range. Now light/med bs are better in everything except in the so much hated buttcruising/cloaking.
Oh hell 11 pages and Wesker didn't write anything but in the first page.
Remove buttcloaking and give heavy battleships a special shield/turret mount?
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Chills - 04-18-2017
Yea why not give heavy battleships their own primarys that make them able to compete with other class battleships. Wouldn't have to care about buffing cerbs then. Titan and me thought about something like broadside siege weapons for heavy battleships, though that would require rebalance for all battleships from all sides.
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Thunderer - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 08:44 PM)Chills Wrote: Yea why not give heavy battleships their own primarys that make them able to compete with other class battleships. Wouldn't have to care about buffing cerbs then. Titan and me thought about something like broadside siege weapons for heavy battleships, though that would require rebalance for all battleships from all sides.
I disagreed with Titan at the time because those special primaries would have been a horrible and unneeded buff to the Valor, which was the best battleship in the game at the time, and whose FG still had the range of 4.5K and the speed of 900m/s. The FG has been changed and the Valor now has something very similar to what Titan spoke about, albeit with a slightly shorter range. Valor/Marduk primaries with the range of 3.5K, only mountable on heavy battleships, dreadnoughts (excluding Liberty, ofc), juggernauts and heavy carriers, would be alright for me.
Speaking of broadside balancing, however, I don't think it is possible. It would make battleships too easy targets for cruisers, as anti-cruiser combat is frontal and requires strafing and reversing instead.
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Chills - 04-18-2017
(04-18-2017, 08:51 PM)Thunderer Wrote: Speaking of broadside balancing, however, I don't think it is possible. It would make battleships too easy targets for cruisers, as anti-cruiser combat is frontal and requires strafing and reversing instead.
Yea it is very difficult to find a good solution. I didn't have an only-broadside setup for dreads in mind, only the heavy siege cannons to be. While the dread carries as well guns that can fire to all sides and damage cruiser like the way they actually do.
RE: It's not too late to fix Caps - Thunderer - 04-18-2017
A dreadnought itself is pretty harmless to cruisers, unless we're talking about the Valor/Redemption/Tokugawa. It can have all the guns it wants, it won't hit with any and it just won't dodge a light mortar. I think that the dreadnought-cruiser problem is more urgent to address than the dreadnought-light/medium battleship problem.
Concerning broadsides and cruisers, I was rather speaking about battleships that can already defeat cruisers using the frontal technique I described.
PS: Incoming 12th page