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+--- Thread: Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer (/showthread.php?tid=39576)
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - tansytansey - 05-08-2010
Have you taken a look at the size comparison pictures I've put together?
Or you simply upset because I'm attempting to change a ship you like?
The Kusari Destroyer will in all likely hood change very little in it's role. My guess would upscaling it would make the ship better than it currently is. It'll still be a light Cruiser, it'll still pwn Gunboats. So what's the problem?
Once again, I am still yet to see a convincing argument why I should not do this. So for I've just heard the same stuff over and over, none of which has any real weight behind it.
This is a mod, nothing is sacred. Get over yourself, because it's people like you who are halting progression.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Bobthemanofsteel - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:The Kusari Destroyer will in all likely hood change very little in it's role. My guess would upscaling it would make the ship better than it currently is. It'll still be a light Cruiser, it'll still pwn Gunboats. So what's the problem?Apart from the fact that it's size is it's only defining feature. And when.. Bubbles says it only fires forwards, they forget to mention that six of it's turrets ONLY fire forwards. Well, two of those can fire backwards and up at a useless angle.
' Wrote:This is a mod, nothing is sacred. Get over yourself, because it's people like you who are halting progression.
How is resizing it mod progression? You say it would 'change very little in it's role'.
It's not progression, it's a retcon.
And your argument for the need of a retcon is simply not great enough to warrant the change.
As for being overpowered, put a bomber on it's ass and watch it explode.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Elven - 05-08-2010
Meh.
Don't change it's size, descrease max energy to 2x Kusari GB level and descrease turrets by 1-2.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Bobthemanofsteel - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:Meh.
Don't change it's size, descrease max energy to 2x Kusari GB level and descrease turrets by 1-2.
Get a new Kusari Cruiser made, then.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Elven - 05-08-2010
Join [KNF] and pay someone 200 M to model it.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - tansytansey - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:Meh.It doesn't need a rebalance, not in it's current state.
Don't change it's size, descrease max energy to 2x Kusari GB level and descrease turrets by 1-2.
Quote:Apart from the fact that it's size is it's only defining feature. And when.. Bubbles says it only fires forwards, they forget to mention that six of it's turrets ONLY fire forwards. Well, two of those can fire backwards and up at a useless angle.
And I also stated the Rogue Scylla only has -one- turret that fires backwards. Not only that, but only three of it's turrets can fire up, one of which being the rear facing turret. The Rogue Scylla has worse turret arcs than the Kusari Destroyer, and is more than twice it's size, it's also a very effective ship, so don't give me that.
It honestly feels like no one reads my posts at all.
Present a particularly convincing argument as to why the Kusari Destroyer should be the size of a Gunboat, and I'll gladly give this up.
Until then; all the answers to your post are in my previous posts in this thread.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Elven - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:It doesn't need a rebalance, not in it's current state.It's to end trolling. ._.
And I also stated the Rogue Scylla only has -one- turret that fires backwards. Not only that, but only three of it's turrets can fire up, one of which being the rear facing turret. The Rogue Scylla has worse turret arcs than the Kusari Destroyer, and is more than twice it's size, it's also a very effective ship, so don't give me that.
It honestly feels like no one reads my posts at all.
Present a particularly convincing argument as to why the Kusari Destroyer should be the size of a Gunboat, and I'll gladly give this up.
Until then; all the answers to your post are in my previous posts in this thread.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - tansytansey - 05-08-2010
I don't particularly care about trolling. It's not my concern, nor the purpose of this thread. Constructive posts, or don't +1 at all.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Markam - 05-08-2010
My experience with fighting the Kusari destroyer is a long tale dating since 4.84. It has come a long way in terms of balance and credit is due to Mjolnir for his efforts; despite himself being the king of the Kusari Destroyer.
Thinking outside the box in terms of balance however, my main issues with the Kusari destroyer is how it has been determined balanced, which alike to the Kusari gunboat and Bretonian Gunboat, is mostly through a 1v1 basis. In addition along with this certain fad loadouts such as multiple pulse/razor setups have not always been taken into account; which changes the game due to the ships characteristics.
While most definitely the Bretonian destroyer can take down a Kusari destroyer, as long as the Bretonian destroyer has a good pilot that can make use of turning techniques, a good kusari destroyer can make a Bretonian destroyer's life hell by using a CD on a mediocre Bretonian destroyer pilot. When it comes to a group fight, say two destroyers vs two destroyers, or a bomber on each side, the kusari destroyer has a significant advantage; its size making it hellish to hit outside of a 'capital ship joust'. Another related issue is while bombers can indeed take it down relatively smoothly, the spread of double razor useage and the need for bombers to almost ram the kusari destroyer to secure a hit (which also hampers group fights where the fastest damagers win) makes the kusari destroyer harder than most to bomb. Basically; while it's balanced for a duel or straight 2 bombers vs 1 destroyer, it would not take into account the kusari destroyer playing coy and evasive in a group fight, there it has an amazing advantage with the gunboat size and the fastest agilty.
Another issue, which I honestly barely ever run into, is in the case of Battleship engagements, Battleships can't really touch the Kusari destroyer because of the gunboat size, while the Kusari destroyer indeed cannot kite, when it goes evasive it is futile; and going evasive can be done at a moments notice. Due to this, the Kusari destroyer is extremely difficult to deal with as a BS, most destroyers while naturally being able to destroy a battleship 2v1, the Kusari has a significant edge. There have been some cases where 1 battleship + 2 destroyers (Bret) have fought 1 battleship + 1 destroyer (Kusari), and while the Bret bs has needed to run away due to the fact it cannot touch the Kusari BS, the Kusari destroyer can generally do as it pleases without being touched by the two destroyers or the BS, in reverse the Bretonian destroyer will consistently take damage from the Kusari bs and destroyer while it tries to evade; in essence, the Kusari destroyer is far too hard to hit outside the joust at very close range.
While I've been yabbering about the Kusari destroyer mostly, the situation is the same for the Kusari gunboat, while the Bret can indeed beat it, if it decides to just fly around in circles the Bret can't do much; because the thing is the size of a large bomber. The Kusari gunboat, with razors/pulse equiped I have seen burst damage a bret gunboat quite badly, and then run away evading while its own shields recharge untouched.
My main points; while things are balanced for generic 1v1 and such, they're easily abused by various tactics and are a nightmare in group fights; the gunboat is the one that bothers me usually.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Bobthemanofsteel - 05-08-2010
The Rogue\Scylla Cruiser shouldn't exactly be the epitome of Shipbuilding, now should it? Given who it's built by in the first place.
Present a good argument as to why it should be ret-conned.
Right now all you have is 'this ship is responsible for holding back the entire Cruiser ship class. Any improvements to Cruisers make the Kusari Dessie an uber pwn ship.'
Which Mjolnir said isn't happening in the first place.
Until the time that cruisers are improved, or changed in some way that affects all of them, it seems pointless to change.
EDIT: Shoulda quoted, this is Directed to Ashes' post. Didn't think a wall was inbound:P