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+--- Thread: Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer (/showthread.php?tid=39576)
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Bobthemanofsteel - 05-08-2010
All I gleaned from rereading your responses on this thread is that you keep repeating the 'Why not' question. :|
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Friday - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:So you want to re-size it..just cause it will be the same size as other ships?
How the hell would that help?
It will do is cut down on the diversity of the mod, increase the balance work and just cause more pain for developers.
In return for it being the same size as ships THAT ARE NOT MEANT TO BE THE SAME AS IT.
Seriously, is this so hard to understand.
It is a small Cruiser.
Others are big cruisers.
Why change it to a big one simply because you want to?
Don't you realise that the reason why it's such a good ship right now at killing things (which is your argument for changing it, that it shouldn't be able to kill things as well as the other cruisers since it is smaller) is because of how small and agile it is?
Size doesn't matter, it's how it's used for god sake. The Kusari Destroyer is meant to epitimise that.
Really, this argument is just the same as demanding all Battleships be the same size.
All fighters too.
Oh wait, bombers..gunboats..cruisers..
Can you see how that might be a bit..boring?
What an utterly specious and generalised argument.
Have you not seen the size comparisons Ashes made?
Doubling the size of the Hatchet does not make it the 'same size' as other ships in its class. the Hatchet can still be the smallest and most agile Destroyer - but it deserves to be a credible ship in the mod, within a credible size range.
And again - I will back up Ashes in stating that this is a cosmetic change. I would fully expect the ship to retain its agility. A ship with a concentration of forward firepower DESERVES high agility in order to make use of it.
If people feel that increasing ship size will nerf it - then give it something else to compensate.
"Make the ship as powerful as you like - just make it bigger!"
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Markam - 05-08-2010
Continuing from the points I alluded to; the very fact of the matter is, the majority of fights seen involving the destroyer wind down to 1v1 with another destroyer, or two bombers taking down a lone Kusari Destroyer, the main issue is when it expands out of this narrow but common set of circumstances. The size then becomes something of a ridiculous thing.
I say this issue is most common with the Gunboat, which truly is the size of a heavy bomber, with the stats of an average gunboat and not say, the BHG gunship, along with a forward gun. These two cases of ships basically acting like a ship twice their size can indeed feel weird to many people. They have indeed, as I've said, been mostly given a run over in terms of balance, it doesn't totally remove the inherent issue with being so unaturally small, an issue which I've found is most visable in group fights and attempts at evasion. These are my personal observations with a long history of dealing with these ships and having amicable relationships with those that use them.
Generally this is quite common for balance, the Praetorian and Snubnose were both incredibly small, and very hard to hit in a group fight, but balancing them in a 1v1 situation was a different story; both were subsequently nerfed in agilty, likewise the Roc while weak in group fights was like a VHF in 1v1, and that was as well nerfed. So everything while balanced, can not be balanced overall all the time; balance is not infallible so don't treat it as such.
Edit; I'll be honest, I've never felt invincible flying any destroyer vs Battleships, infact it has been quite stressful and damage has been quite painful at times, I've seen some LN siege cruisers take some pain likewise. It can be skill in evasion and keeping your distance, but the Kusari Destroyer really doesn't have to try hard with it's size, is my point. Except extreme close up, it is near untouchable; unlike most destroyers.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Zeltak - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:What an utterly specious and generalised argument.
Have you not seen the size comparisons Ashes made?
Doubling the size of the Hatchet does not make it the 'same size' as other ships in its class. the Hatchet can still be the smallest and most agile Destroyer - but it deserves to be a credible ship in the mod, within a credible size range.
And again - I will back up Ashes in stating that this is a cosmetic change. I would fully expect the ship to retain its agility. A ship with a concentration of forward firepower DESERVES high agility in order to make use of it.
If people feel that increasing ship size will nerf it - then give it something else to compensate.
"Make the ship as powerful as you like - just make it bigger!"
I counter your pile of BS with:
"It dosen't have the size of X Ship. Please make it the same size."
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - casero - 05-08-2010
Quote:The Kusari Destroyer. The infamously small Cruiser that causes a variety of balancing problems. While not terribly imbalanced as it is, this ship is responsible for holding back the entire Cruiser ship class. Any improvements to Cruisers make the Kusari Dessie an uber pwn ship.
Quote:Because it breaks everything around it. The Bret Gunboat, the Dragon Cruiser, practically every other Cruiser. I wouldn't be surprised if every other Cruiser in this game was balanced around the Kusari Dessie.
I never said the Kusari Dessie was broken. I'm sure it's balance is fine. But it's size is effecting everything around it. Upscaling it will not break the ship, it will only change it's balance. It might even make it better. So what's the harm?
Bah, you were saying it's not overpowered, but you are saying it.
But I give you the reason on one thing, upscaling it will change its balance, so in a way, you are asking for a balance, may be or may be not.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Friday - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:I counter your pile of BS with:
"It dosen't have the size of X Ship. Please make it the same size."
I am not interested in generalised quotes. They have no meaning, and only serve to highlight your ignorance of the matter at hand.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Zeltak - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:I am not interested in generalised quotes. They have no meaning, and only serve to highlight your ignorance of the matter at hand.
Oh you mean like this one?
' Wrote:"Make the ship as powerful as you like - just make it bigger!"
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - pipboy - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:Size doesn't matter, it's how it's used for god sake.:laugh: That's what she said?
Loved your post btw, very well written. I just couldn't help myself.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Friday - 05-08-2010
' Wrote:Oh you mean like this one?
Perhaps not as generalised as one may think. It is the size of the ship, and only the size, that I have an issue with.
If people feel resizing the ship would throw out the existing balance of the Hatchet - then improve it as required. I dont petition for a resize because it is overpowered - but because it looks bloody stupid!
I can kill or be killed by it either way.
Rescaling the Kusari Destroyer - Rapur - 05-08-2010
Meh. Just give it a bit less armor and fire power. Kusari one is smaller and moves faster, Bretonian one has more armor and fire power.
Kusarian could be a "light cruiser".
End of Story.