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+--- Thread: Reducing in Game Meta Poll (/showthread.php?tid=180321)
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - darkwind - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 03:07 PM)Haste Wrote:(06-01-2020, 03:03 PM)darkwind Wrote: Do yourself a favor and just pretend the encounter is random. It is the best you can do.
This often seems sillier and more "fake" than just saying something like "We're picking up Rogue activity in California.", honestly. As long as it's done within reason (No FR5ing players for being in Alaska on the player list, thanks.), it's fine with me.
Obviously this is all just my opinion as a player and I'm not stating the intent of the rules or some sort of developer point of view here.
Edit: Also yeah, sure. I didn't literally mean long range scanners. More like navigation buoys, patrols, trade lane usage, whatever.
tbh I do the same while with group mates. I just try not to make it obvious to intercepted ones.
I have easier time when I am in police though, I can literally say trade lanes sensors triggered an alert.
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Haste - 06-01-2020
Restricting the actual player list in some capacity would only work if we had something like four times the player density. As neither the playerbase nor the server (..nor system design) currently support this, we'll need the playerlist and we'll have to live with it having some very slight metagaming implications.
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Tycho - 06-01-2020
I think hiding it would greatly increase the RP and communication between players.
Imagine a bountyhunter asking if they have last seen a suspect or much more random encounters.
Maybe to Balance it a bit you could increase the range of scanners.
And maybe add some sort of console command to ping a player.
Then you get told maybe how many systems he is away or you get coordinates.
Pings are only available once in a minute maybe
I think that would be great fun.
Same way you could limit scanners on some ships like:
LHF only 10K
Caps 25k
Example just for understanding
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Jayce - 06-01-2020
Boy, I sure can't wait to sit at Manhattan hoping to catch a smuggler that will just instadock despite the fact that Manhattan would deny docking permissions to a smuggler at the request of LN, LSF, or LPI! This is a great idea to protect even more traders!
I'm so glad you suggested this!
Wait, no, hold on.
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Grumblesaur - 06-01-2020
Multiplayer games are about interaction. Hiding the system that players are in creates a barrier to interaction. Nobody who's played this game long enough cares that looking at the player list is "metagaming" because if we didn't do that one little bit of metagaming, we'd wander around in mostly-empty space wondering why we haven't encountered anyone yet.
Generally, there are more systems than there are players concurrently logged in. This is a density problem. Allowing players to gravitate toward each other (whether all parties involved like it or not) catalyzes interaction. Local density of players is a good thing, and it won't happen by random chance.
In many ways, two players seeing each other on the player list and either running from the other or going after the other is a PVP interaction in its own right. It's a battle of route knowledge and psychology. Successfully catching or escaping the other player is a victory, while being caught or eluded is a loss.
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Mick - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 04:46 PM)Grumblesaur Wrote: Multiplayer games are about interaction. Hiding the system that players are in creates a barrier to interaction. Nobody who's played this game long enough cares that looking at the player list is "metagaming" because if we didn't do that one little bit of metagaming, we'd wander around in mostly-empty space wondering why we haven't encountered anyone yet.
Generally, there are more systems than there are players concurrently logged in. This is a density problem. Allowing players to gravitate toward each other (whether all parties involved like it or not) catalyzes interaction. Local density of players is a good thing, and it won't happen by random chance.
In many ways, two players seeing each other on the player list and either running from the other or going after the other is a PVP interaction in its own right. It's a battle of route knowledge and psychology. Successfully catching or escaping the other player is a victory, while being caught or eluded is a loss.
I think this is the best explanation i have read!
I now feel that my own feelings are now calmed towards this rule thankyou for your opinions and helping me a new player understand from your perspective!
While i understand this poll is useless now it is still good to get an all round perspective from players! One Love to all! I don't think i will be needing to continue this poll but it's helped me so thats a positive in any light!
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Binski - 06-01-2020
Using the player list to find other players has always been acceptable metagaming. I wouldn't be opposed to making the list in game like the forum and only show region instead. In some ways you'd see someone move from region to region, but it would not be so specific. We do need the list to find eachother, yet its also used to avoid each other equally.
If it were set to region instead of system, the option to wait out another player is basically removed though. If you are docked, or were just chased, you'd only know a pursuing ship was still in the area, not necessarily in the same system or not. It could mean traders will just have to chance it and go, and pirates will have to chance it by visiting an ore field, or camping the trade lanes more randomly.
When you see ships going Sigma-13, then Honshu, then NT, you know its probably going Kyushu next, so you can hit any lane in Kyushu and have a high chance of hitting that ship. Yet it may see you on the list, and not come. If the list just shows 'Kusari' both sides only know the house has ships in it.
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Grumblesaur - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 04:54 PM)FrodoTheFluffy Wrote: I think this is the best explanation i have read!
I now feel that my own feelings are now calmed towards this rule thankyou for your opinions and helping me a new player understand from your perspective!
While i understand this poll is useless now it is still good to get an all round perspective from players! One Love to all! I don't think i will be needing to continue this poll but it's helped me so thats a positive in any light!
I'm sure if you dig deep enough through my posts you'll find me on the other side of this argument. Some things just come from experience!
(06-01-2020, 05:13 PM)Binski Wrote: If it were set to region instead of system, the option to wait out another player is basically removed though. If you are docked, or were just chased, you'd only know a pursuing ship was still in the area, not necessarily in the same system or not. It could mean traders will just have to chance it and go, and pirates will have to chance it by visiting an ore field, or camping the trade lanes more randomly.
When you see ships going Sigma-13, then Honshu, then NT, you know its probably going Kyushu next, so you can hit any lane in Kyushu and have a high chance of hitting that ship. Yet it may see you on the list, and not come. If the list just shows 'Kusari' both sides only know the house has ships in it.
If we look at the navmap utility on the forums, we see the following systems listed for Liberty (for example):
- Alaska
- Alberta
- California
- Colorado
- New York
- Ontario
- Pennsylvania
- Texas
- Virginia
You are playing in Liberty. You see someone log in and their name is listed as being in Liberty. You're in New York. Traffic flows pretty steadily in and out of Colorado, Texas, and California. Pennsylvania is mostly local traffic and newbs, and Alaska is an uncommon route, so you can exclude those.
Now you can roll the dice. Colorado, Texas, or California. That's a 1/3 chance you're going in the right direction. Even then, you have other systems you can fork off to after that. Do you need to go to Ontario or Alberta next? Maybe Virginia? Maybe the unknown contact jumped into New York as you were jumping out. You won't know until they've left Liberty, and if Liberty is your ZoI, you just missed an interaction.
Maybe the unknown contact was looking for you too, and you just endlessly wander around, never meeting. A missed connection.
Now imagine this happening to all of the players in the game. Liberty might not be the best example because there are usually enough players there to encounter them by chance on a trade lane or at a junction, but this topological problem exists everywhere. Many routes, lots of space to get lost in. You could have a full server and still have people unable to track targets of interest if you remove the system label from the chat window.
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Shiki - 06-01-2020
no, thanks
RE: Reducing in Game Meta Poll - Mick - 06-01-2020
It's definitely better to have an understanding from experienced players, I come from games where Meta is strictly controlled and enforced and harsh punishments against it, i played FL years ago i am somewhat a veteran in my own rights but here jeez i am astonished and amazed at everything in Discovery from being able to have your own bases and even your own faction it's immense to be joining such an awesome community that still thrives!
An experience that i hope will last a long time!