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+--- Thread: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance (/showthread.php?tid=132251)
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Fluffyball - 08-03-2015
Quote:Destroying billion dollar ship with 4-5 fighter (worths only 100m) makes no sense
If you know where to aim, you can disable every capital ship with only few shots - even in real life. One critical shot with Tomahawk type missile is enough to put vessel out of action (this is why carriers have PHALANX for example).
(08-03-2015, 11:36 AM)Snoopy Wrote: Seriously restrict battleships to official factions only or SRP. Then make them stupidly OP like they should be.
Also, same with Battlecruisers, Carriers. I proposed it many times. It makes an official faction to control their heavy guns - or to force players to actually put some effort into roleplay in order to obtain them.
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - zslayern - 08-03-2015
(08-03-2015, 12:37 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-03-2015, 12:35 PM)zslayern Wrote:(08-03-2015, 12:32 PM)Titan Wrote:(08-03-2015, 12:25 PM)zslayern Wrote: on* hahahahahahahahahahahaha
I am still bad at english gg
About bombers;
They are balanced for me lol
about battleships;
they are also well balanced for me lol
so are fighters
Are they? Did you died to 4 fighter in battleship or did you saw? Looks like you didn't. I think you more like fighters, of course you don't want this balance
I've never owned a battleship, and the only time I died in a capital was a cruiser to a battleship.
Also have you heard of loadouts? Just fill your secondary wep slots up with solarises and you'll be able to go against four fighters, perhaps more.
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Titan* - 08-03-2015
(08-03-2015, 12:37 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: I guess you didn't see Cape.St.Vincent yesterday with his battleship razors
I meant, Fighters do high damage to Battleships. Lone fighter can damage battleship shield %20-25, 3-4 Fighter can deshield it when that battleship busy with hostile battleships
(08-03-2015, 12:38 PM)Fluffyball Wrote:Quote:Destroying billion dollar ship with 4-5 fighter (worths only 100m) makes no sense
If you know where to aim, you can disable every capital ship with only few shots - even in real life.
Not with Fighters but Bombers can do it
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Traxit - 08-03-2015
Let's take the Liberty Dread, it has a total of 840,000 Hull Points.
Flashpoints deal 277 damage per shot, multiply by 8.33 and you get 2,307.41 Damage per second, multiply by 4 and you get 9,229.64 Damage per second with all 4 Flashpoints
Let's take a standard VHF Core Capacity, which is 12,400. coupled with a 1270 Regeneration rate(per second)
Now flashpoints take 56 Core whenever they fire a shot, so 56 multiplied by 8.33 and then 4, equals to 1865, 1865 minus the Regen Rate of the Core, 1865 - 1270 = 595, 595 Core is drained per second from all 4 Flashpoints.
Divide 12400 with 595 and you get 20 seconds of continuous fire, 20 multiplied by 9,229(4 Flashpoint DPS) gives you 184,580 damage for 20 seconds, now multiply that by 4 (the number of fighters available) and you get 738,320 Hull damage in 20 seconds from 4 VHFs wearing 4 flashpoints , now waiting to regenerate all that Core back will take approximately ~9 seconds, and then the VHFs deliver their blow again, destroying the battleship in 5 more seconds.
But with Cap Armor, let's take Heavy Armor Upgrade IV, which multiplied the armour of the BS by 3, meaning the Liberty Dread now has 2,520,000 Armor, this means that the ~45 seconds spent firing, waiting for the Core to regen and fire again are now tripled, to 135 seconds, Now add up the nanobots that fully heal the Battleship, now it takes 270 seconds to kill it, now add the time that the snubs will spend dodging the fire coming from the Dread and the fight will last about 300-600 seconds, in this time the Dread knows it's getting damaged real fast, so in this time it will probably call for Anti-Snub support or Run away and dock, but this calculation shows how much Snubs can overpower capitals
Now let's calculate the longest cap battle (lawful one) Let's take the Turtle(Rheinland BS) which has 1,400,000 Hull Points
Put on Capital Armor Upgrade VIII on it and its armor is now multiplied by 4, which makes it have 5,600,000 Hull Points
5,600,000 divided by 738,520 equals 7.5, which means you need to deliver 7 and a half of those 20 second continuous blows to the Hull(including all 4 snubs), so 20 seconds multiplied by 7.5 makes it 150 seconds, adding in the approximate ~9 seconds of Core recharge, multiplied by 7.5 gives an additional 56 seconds, making it ~200 seconds now
Add in the Nanobots it's now 400 seconds, add in the dodging and stuff, and add in when the shields go up and you gotta take them down, fights can last up to 900 seconds(15 minutes)
I probably made some mistakes in some calculations, but the time spent is close enough, do whatever you wish with this Info, but i'm pretty amazed how Flashpoints deliver so much Damage over Time.
Also: downing the Battleship shield is an additional 22 seconds, provided each VHF has 2 Debs and does continuous fire to the BS Shield.
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Lythrilux - 08-03-2015
(08-03-2015, 12:42 PM)Titan Wrote:So what? Who cares? As long as you can dispatch it quickly and efficiently, what's the problem?(08-03-2015, 12:37 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: I guess you didn't see Cape.St.Vincent yesterday with his battleship razors
I meant, Fighters do high damage to Battleships. Lone fighter can damage battleship shield %20-25, 3-4 Fighter can deshield it when that battleship busy with hostile battleships
Bomber snacs do a lot of damage to Gunboats if they hit. Therefore it's up to the pilot to dispatch of the bomber(s) efficiently and quickly without getting hurt too much.
Although I might slightly agree with you that right now Fighters are a bit too good at anti-cap overall. They need to be made a bit less multi-purpose/kill-all. That certainly won't be solved by making BSes ridiculous however.
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - TheFreelancer - 08-03-2015
nah, its better if a fighter can destroy it, it keeps it relatively balanced, anyways, thats what you will get for enganging a large group of snubs!
And bombers are designed to take out caps, so yeah......
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Laura C. - 08-03-2015
(08-03-2015, 11:44 AM)Titan Wrote: I am sure most of the pro snub players don't want this balance.
(08-03-2015, 12:37 PM)Titan Wrote: I think you more like fighters, of course you don't want this balanceDo you plan to handle this discussion in a manner "my opinion is only possible one and everybody who disagree with me is just pro snub cap hater"?
(08-03-2015, 12:38 PM)Fluffyball Wrote:Did you read this?(08-03-2015, 11:36 AM)Snoopy Wrote: Seriously restrict battleships to official factions only or SRP. Then make them stupidly OP like they should be.
Also, same with Battlecruisers, Carriers. I proposed it many times. It makes an official faction to control their heavy guns - or to force players to actually put some effort into roleplay in order to obtain them.
(08-03-2015, 10:05 AM)|nfrared Wrote:(08-03-2015, 09:18 AM)Antonio- Wrote: Battleships should've been made SRP ages ago, it's too late for that now. There's absolutely nothing we can do now to prevent something mentioned above happening and the fights will never be "balanced".
While yes hindsight is 20/20 and this would have been great(and alot of other tech as well cloaks etc etc...)don't do this, I was around on DUSA *shudders* server when they introduced Capital ship registrations. This made all capital vessels require to post a biography, and anyone could look up OORP information all they liked. The intention was to curb the presence of lulzy caps and limit the tech usage to those that the team there saw fit..
I'm not saying the community here would be doing this, I am saying that attempts to "grandfather in" a big change like this or anything similar to control tech usage are far too late already, and while it may look like the magic bullet, it really isn't.
That move really was the beginning of the end for that team. Please let the people here learn from that terrible mistake. There are still a few DUSA survivors who made the move here though, currently playing. I'm sure they can attest to what I am saying here.
(08-03-2015, 12:42 PM)Titan Wrote:Technically it is not with shots, but kamikaze fighters managed to disable some warships during the WWII... Also modern anti-ship missiles can be carried by some fighters and are quite effective against warships (for example F-15 Eagle and F/A-18C Hornet may carry AGM-84 Harpoon missiles). They may be equivalent of Freelancer´s fighter torpedos.(08-03-2015, 12:38 PM)Fluffyball Wrote:Quote:Destroying billion dollar ship with 4-5 fighter (worths only 100m) makes no sense
If you know where to aim, you can disable every capital ship with only few shots - even in real life.
Not with Fighters but Bombers can do it
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Doria - 08-03-2015
(08-03-2015, 11:36 AM)Snoopy Wrote: Seriously restrict battleships to official factions only or SRP. Then make them stupidly OP like they should be.
THAT!!
Also: oh, I miss the old battleship license!
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Antonio - 08-03-2015
How about we raise player activity to 100 average before requesting any changes.
RE: Battleship Vs Fighters - Balance - Pepe - 08-03-2015
I agree heavy caps should be harder to destroy. Looking at 2 caps annihilating one in seconds makes me say this. No chance to escape, or call for help.
And I agree snubs shouldn't be able destroying it by scratching it's hull on many different places. But snubs should be able to cripple it severely. Snubs should show some teamwork and skill and aim together at weak points (sub-targets), removing them one by one. Crippling a warship should be their only job. Good old Tie-Fighter game had it and I miss that in Disco very much.
With better armor, sub-equipment should be more available for snac-ing and nova-ing. I never managed to snac-off shield generators in some battle and I should be on my almost average level of skill. Firing novas at hull from safe distance is unreal and even dumb imho - and should be only tickling heavy caps.
And there should be a way to aim for power plant at the end, after BS is crippled enough and can't return fire. I'm sure you creative people could think something out.
I support what Snoopeh said too. Good and stabile factions should be rewarded by BSs. And if they use them to ruin people's fun, limiting them should be reconsidered on Admin level. So, some factions would have better CAU limit, or powercore multiplier.