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+--- Thread: New Rheinland War Idea (/showthread.php?tid=145365)
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - WesternPeregrine - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 04:10 PM)Wesker Wrote:(11-16-2016, 09:18 AM)Gulryz Wrote: Like really IRP Hessians have 1-2 BS , IRP it's not RHA gank squad with 20+ BS running around because IRP they need facilities to maintain a large fleet which they do not have, This event won't make sense IRP some rebels with 2 BS invading Rheinland Capital while Rheinland has let's say 3rd largest standing fleet in Sirius sector IRP
Rheinland is not the 3rd largest standing fleet inrp lmao
Also Rheinland has little to no resources, Hessians have quite the opposite.
Rheinland has resources, and the industrial power to make use of them. What they are sorely lacking in the financial power to back that economy up. Compare that to Liberty, which has also a decent industry, not a lot of resources in their possession, but a lot financial power to import and sustain itself. Gallia has the assets built, and has little problem financially and military, but on the other hand, Does lack the natural resources to sustain the needed economic and military production to maintain it's expansionism.
You could say making or forcing rehinland to rebuild it's military forces without caring to the financial side would cause severe penalties to the wellbeing of its citizens (due to overtaxing, or extended work demanded by the government without proper compensation), which in turn could explain the rise of discontent and hessian presence.
Tl : DR as far as I know, Rheinland does not lack resources, it lacks the money to rebuild on it's own (at least, without taking harsh measures).
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Laura C. - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 04:10 PM)Wesker Wrote: Also Rheinland has little to no resourcesThis quote shows that either you lack basic RP background information about the house where you play, or you deliberately post misleading information because it suits your agenda. I am not sure what is worse.
So just tl;dr for your:
Rheinland has one of the biggest (if not the biggest) mining and heavy machinery industry in the whole Sirius at this moment and huge ore fields available in it´s territory (mind you that there are not only fields where you can really mine in game, there are also fields which are mentioned on infocards but for gameplay and balance reasons are not mineable).
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - WesternPeregrine - 11-16-2016
(11-15-2016, 02:53 PM)WPeregrine Wrote: With perhaps the exception of Gallia, all houses have "good enough" player numbers to do stuff. People and the mod just need to stop putting brakes on everything, whether by overzealous reasoning or oorp conspiracies.
What is lore and untouchable by player input, and what is modifiable by community action is ambiguous, and that leaves too much undefined and unclear.
As I mentioned before, this sort of discussion about what RM can build or do, or what RHA can achieve or do is the sort of "overzealous reasoning" that stalls progress, and removes the enjoyment of the game. Sure thing, make the stuff have an importance to the overall progress, but you have to consider it relative/percentual, rather than an absolute yes/no, 0 or 1 effect upon the House or enemy that you are influencing.
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Yaoquizque - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 10:05 AM)Strichev Wrote:(11-16-2016, 09:18 AM)Gulryz Wrote: Like really IRP Hessians have 1-2 BS , IRP it's not RHA gank squad with 20+ BS running around because IRP they need facilities to maintain a large fleet which they do not have, This event won't make sense IRP some rebels with 2 BS invading Rheinland Capital while Rheinland has let's say 3rd largest standing fleet in Sirius sector IRP
There are two Rheinlands.
The one created by the RM player faction of old, who couldn't cope with Rheinland having a single half functional battleship (the Westfallen) while being economically exploited by domestic and foreign corporations. It should be a corrupt place where the few enjoy wealth beyond imaginable in a decadently hedonistic spirit of the people who live their lives with the end of the world always in sight. Exploitation of workers, the general dissatisfaction, should fuel the popular revolutionary movements in every system. It should be a low intensity war between the dilapidated forces of RM and RFP backed by rampant private armies of the corporations operating beyond any semblance of responsibility and the revolutionaries. RAF/Red Zora/Zellen on steroids vs corruption personified.
Riots. Ambushes. Opium cardamine dens on New Berlin with artifacts pouring through. It should feel like a mix of Blade Runner-ish cyberpunk lowlife mixed with the 19th century European decadent poetic indulgence in the fine pleasures with a hint of "the fall of Western civilization" 80's cynical end of the age/world attitude.
The other Rheinland is the one created through (in my opinion) questionable player decisions that fed on the historical course of events following the Weimar republic. Goottkanzler and all that.
Rebuilding the military! RM BS bases in every system! Hooray! Now we have a Sirius super power again! Hooray! Let's go to war with another super power cause there is no RP way of having a meaningful fight with the domestic opposition! And then the Hessians had to get their own capital ships cause muh balance.
The houses need to differentiate themselves more in the substance and not just style of RP. Because playing a RM char should be totally different than playing a LN one. And I don't think that introducing 5 German words and a twisted "zhe" accent counts as an interesting diference.
Solution?
Remove or limit capital ships on both sides. Deleting player BS accounts wouldn't work. Perhaps a jump gate/hole limit that doesn't let cap ships into the core systems of Rheinland and keeps the RM capitals on the border with Liberty (or something) and the Hessian caps in deep Omegas. (so that they can't meet regularly. The characters would have to be moved from the core systems before the implementation of the cap ship blocking jumpholes/gates. How?
All chars should be moved out of the systems (it has been done before when the admins emptied NY years ago) and let people fly their ships back while cap ships stay outside.
Then we can have proper a proper Rheinland while caps also get to do stuff elsewhere.
I find your post extremely interesting and insightful regarding Rheinland and the possibilities it was offering in unique background and role-play. It is nice to read things like this, far from the postures of certain people, caring more about gaining influence/power for their faction than actually bringing something truly interesting to the community.
This background of a weakened, disillusioned, pessimistic about the future and socially unrested Rheinland is personally giving me way more incentive to try playing in Rheinland than the "We are stronk" power gaming mentality displayed by some people there.
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Ihtyander - 11-16-2016
Indeed this last comment point the problem excactly.
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Strichev - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 05:03 PM)Yber Wrote:Quote:Then we can have proper a proper Rheinland while caps also get to do stuff elsewhere.
i don't remember you having the authority to dictate what a proper rheinland
As you are very well aware, beyond expressing my opinion and the infinitesimal possibility of it having an effect, I have absolutely no power to dictate anything in this community. Feel free to ignore everything I write.
However, the fact is that the current situation does not promote diversity in RP and PVP encounters. A weak Rheinland would be much more interesting and dynamic. Sure, this is subjective, but that's the point.
Both views on the state of the house have their foundations in in-game lore. One of Vanilla and the other after the addition of random "ore bonanza" systems. All added in an effort to create a house capable of waging Krieg on all fronts.
Vanilla version didn't point at a prosperous Rheinland. They couldn't produce superconductors, they couldn't keep their lanes safe, the only BS was falling apart and Dresden's ore field running low. The house was dependent on GMG for fuel, Liberty for trade lane parts and a market for raw materials.
A failed state seemed just as likely as an economic miracle we have today.
Then there was an illogical war with Liberty (laughable), the whole IC debacle and still, Rheinland is going strong. As I've said; hooray for Rheinland, it's a miracle.
A rather boring miracle.
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Gentlefood - 11-16-2016
Hi. I'm one of those RM player faction of old guys.
The above is nothing new.
Primarily because Rheinland exists in shrodinger's hell, where its simultaneously collapsing due to rebellion and simultaneously beating the rebellion.
I can't speak of the Rheinland leaders who came before me, but all I tried to do was make some kind of forward progress. Perhaps the progress desired was not what eventually occurred, but we could only work with what we were given. Nothing against the devs, but they were very set in their ways on what is able to change, most of them were minor.
My suggested changes were within the realm of possibility, or trying to mitigate those that were random undesirable events (such as the system lol-exploding and the devs blowing up the gates which we were against)
There's a lot of stagnation in Rheinland.
overall nothing has changed
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Demonic - 11-16-2016
Well, to be honest, making rheinland colapse and waiting to see what happens could be nice... a new frontier even... but than again, I'd call for nuking Gallia too..
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Strichev - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 08:01 PM)Gentlefood Wrote: Hi. I'm one of those RM player faction of old guys.
The above is nothing new.
Primarily because Rheinland exists in shrodinger's hell, where its simultaneously collapsing due to rebellion and simultaneously beating the rebellion.
---snip---
overall nothing has changed
I guess we see the errors of the original vanilla devs. They decided to make Rheinland the seemingly primary enemy in the SP campaign (lots of capital ships all around Sirius, the cap ship parade when Trent enters Rheinland space etc. ) but at the same time they left the old infocards and rumors describing a collapsing state in-game.
RE: New Rheinland War Idea - Skyelius - 11-16-2016
Hey people,
I don't want to seem rude, but this is very off.
This appears to simply be the result of an ego trip for achieving the destruction of a Core 5 Base.
We cannot take the already low RP standards of Discovery and bring them down even further, treating player activity as a measure of the RP strength of factions. That's completely absurd.
Bretonia is the House closest to military collapse, followed by Kusari. Any critical event would be a finishing blow to Bretonia, like the death of the Queen.
Gallia and Rheinland are at similar levels of military strength. Conditions of life in both are in slow decay.
Liberty is, of course, the strongest house.
Seeing the posts, this thread should be renamed "New Hessian Power Idea".
Disregarding both fair and nonsensical arguments, I do think Discovery needs more troubles in it, cataclysms even, but I'll leave that for another thread...