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+--- Thread: PvP Rules regarding winners (/showthread.php?tid=8619)
PvP Rules regarding winners - ParanoidAndroid - 05-20-2008
' Wrote:I'm going to agree with Jinx here. Neither character (winner nor loser) should attack each other, or enter the same systems. Why? Well, the loser is considered to be dead, missing or injured. He wouldn't just magically come back with a new ship.
It's just a hazy daydream about how the proper RP behaviour should looks like. There is great chasm between this and the reality of the server.
I would rather take into consideration changing the rules that they would enforce the loser to log offfor 3-4 hours (or switch character) and that's it. Pretty painful but ... effective.
PvP Rules regarding winners - Xoria - 05-20-2008
Once again, the question is not "What is the best roleplay?" or "What should the rules regarding PvP death be?"
The question is "What do the current rules require & allow after a PvP death?"
Nothing else is relevant to THIS poll.
So, like Gronath said earlier...
PvP Rules regarding winners - Jinx - 05-20-2008
but switching characters doesn t do anything. - the rules say clearly that one must not encounter the winner in this char or any other char of the same player. - so switching the chars has no effect whatsoever. - and we cannot force people to log off entirely.
usually its not really a problem to leave a bit of a "grey" area around. - when the winner does not activly seek another engagement with the looser and the looser is bound to avoid the winners ZoI ( if possible ) anyway - i see no problem there. i really don t see much of a problem there...
if player N ( navy ) kill player P ( pirate ) - player p leaves player n alone.
if player p happens to be engaged into a fight with other navies, and player n approaches to assist his buddies, player p leaves ( retreats ) - simple like that... cause he is bound not to engage player n again. so even if player p was winning against the other navies, he will have to leave, end of the story. - i don t see the problem there.
regarding to the rules - player p can of course make player n head to each and every system player n is "responsible" for... but thats the deal about that? - its not RP to do so.
now, if the zoi of player n and player p are basicly the same ( like liberty rogues and liberty navy ) - then player n should of course switch his chars, cause he d risk running into player n everytime he is doing his "job" within his zoi.
mind, player p would have to switch a char that is most unlikely hitting the zoi of player n still and/or has no business with player n whatsoever. ( like switching to a neutral trader )
now, when both chars are killed - happens sometimes - both chars have no problem avoiding each other, since both are dead. both must make sure they do not run into each other - we have such a nice little tool like the chatlist that shows all chars.
so if he winner runs repeatedly into the looser - while the looser tries not to mess with the winner ( may happen with factions with large or undefined ZoIs - like BHG or zoners ) then there is something wrong with the winner seeking pvp. when however the looser seeks to fight the winner again by offending the winners zoi, its the same way around. - the looser must not mess with the winner, no matter if the winner is him directly or his faction.
so a pirate that died by the hands of the liberty navy should not seek another fight with the liberty navy. if the looser accepts that fact, the winner has NO reason to engage the looser again, other than seeking pvp.
@Xoria:
in order to come to a decission, you need reason. reason in that case is roleplay as all gameplay is based on roleplay. - so if someone makes a decission, one can do it based on roleplay and the whys and hows. - if you don t like it - make a poll that says "vote and don t comment on it" - but if there is a poll about a rule, its just natural that those that choose an option make clear WHY they did it.
some may choose based on gameplay , others choose based on roleplay - nither of both is valid if invalid. - this is a poll, this is not a holy dogma - let people explain why they choose what, please. either that - or make it clearer that no one is allowed to discuss their reasons.
PvP Rules regarding winners - Xoria - 05-20-2008
I've read every sanction report for the last 7 months, and those threads are full of people who managed to reason there way into a server rule violation through their gameplay or roleplay interpretation. Those considerations are not relevant to following the server rules, anymore than an understanding of the depraved nature of cursing is necessary in order to follow the server rule prohibiting it. The "what" is far more important than the "why".
The most interesting thing about this thread is how many people continue to answer the question wrong after the person who wrote the rule has posted stating what the correct answer is.
Learn "what" it is and follow it, and you won't be sanctioned for violating it and will have a much happier time. Focus on the "why" to the exclusion of the "what" and we'll be reading about your characters being stripped.
PvP Rules regarding winners - Jinx - 05-20-2008
"Learn "what" it is and follow it, and you won't be sanctioned for violating it and will have a much happier time. Focus on the "why" to the exclusion of the "what" and we'll be reading about your characters being stripped."
in other words - do as you re told, don t ask questions, don t try to switch your own brain on to "understand" what you read. - just do as you re told.
no, i don t agree. - thats how the military works best if no one asks questions and is confident that what you re told is for a greater good, decided by people who know better than you. - mind, its not that way here. - either make people understand the background of a rule or you ll deal with problems.
nothing is worse than people who ask no questions, that follow some rules to the letter. - such a situation is undesirable, cause it offers no developements, no critizism - only boredom. by asking about rules, by discussing them you open up new horizons for those that cannot see an issue from more than their own perspective.
again, if you want a pure decission, make it so that people must not comment their decissions at all ( and thats OK ) - but making up a good poll is not an easy task. - in the end, this poll won t do anything about it. - mostly cause there is no problem with winners - unless we make it up.
PvP Rules regarding winners - Xoria - 05-20-2008
' Wrote:in other words - do as you re told, don t ask questions, don t try to switch your own brain on to "understand" what you read. - just do as you re told.Stop putting words in my mouth. Your interpretation of what I said is completely off base.
' Wrote:nothing is worse than people who ask no questions, that follow some rules to the letter.I suspect that a majority of the people who have been sanctioned for not following the rules would disagree with this, and wish that they had paid more attention to what the rules were than their own opinions about what they should be. They discovered first hand that there is something worse.
' Wrote:such a situation is undesirable, cause it offers no developements, no critizism - only boredom. by asking about rules, by discussing them you open up new horizons for those that cannot see an issue from more than their own perspective.All of which is legitimate, and is not the subject of this thread, despite the attempts of many to transform it into such.
You have to learn to crawl before you can learn to walk, and you have to know what the rules actually are, before you can intelligently discuss what they should be, and why they should be that way. Trying to do it backwards, or simultaneously, is what is leading so many people to answer the question wrongly, and is why there are so many sanction reports.
Debating the "why" before you correctly know the "what" is merely vain speculation that benefits no one. It does newcomers to the mod, server, forums, and rules no good whatsoever if they start debating the merits of what they do not first understand. If you get the "what" wrong, you are going to be hopelessly unable to get the "why" correct in any sense that is useful or profitable. How can you even discuss interpretations of the rules regarding gameplay and roleplay if you don't first know what they are? That's like a blind-from-birth person debating the nuances of the color spectrum.
So like I said, learn the "what" of the rules fully before venturing into the "why" or you end up blissfully treading on a minefield and risking great injury to yourself.