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+--- Thread: Coalition made, Civilian Liner (/showthread.php?tid=63444)
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - SMI-Great.Fox - 08-01-2011
' Wrote:http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HL...comparisons.png
Look at the picture. It's about three or more times larger than a luxury liner, which has 200k armor. The Liberty dreadnought has 850k and it's a bit less than half the size.
Your comparison doesn't show up for me so I can only make such statements on a mental image.
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - Hades - 08-01-2011
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HL...comparisons.png
That should work, no idea what the hell happened to it before.
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - Jinx - 08-01-2011
some hardcaps that you should consider :
- no transport must have more than 5k cargo - unless its called a "barge"
no matter the size! - if we say that a ship 8 times larger than a lib DN must have 8 times the cargo or 8 times the armour, you really don t wanne fight a juggernaut - and after around 4 hours chainfiring on a barge, you d switch the game off - out of boredom. ( just like the bargeplayer did 2 hours ago )
- no more than 32 turrets on a ship - more will require a hack, which exists but isn t planned ( cause really - 32 is enough )
- please, do not create hybrid ships if possible - that means, do not mix shields, weapons, energycores etc. - hybrids always cause balance chaos!
also
- when its siriuswide available, it must be GREEN to sirius civilians, not white!
- when its WHITE - it is faction property! which is anything but free for all - consider that. ( cause when its white, you need to submit to whatever the faction asks you to do )
- when its a liner, think in terms of LINERS - what is important for a liner? weapons? or maybe rather active defense mechanicsms - like CMs and long range scanners, a quick charging cruisedrive, thruster etc.
because:
- when its too close to a capital warship, it will also be considered as a capital warship - meaning, it will be a liner which police and military will really really dislike - and probably ban sooner or later - cause if they don t ... they ll have many many "civilian battleships" floating around. ( if its green to all )
edit:
the model itself is VERY good. - but i have to agree - its not quite a liner - its not even a civilian transport - it looks like a highly specialized armoured transport for troops on a planetary assault. - the area that looks like cargo compared to other areas is too small. - if we caompare it to lets say the normal lux liner.
- lux liner : around 75% of the ship appears to be passenger space, 20% is engines, 5% is brige etc.
- prison liner : same like the lux liner - a little less space for the "passengers" though
- mastodon : around 65% cargospace, but attachable like the train - so it can be a lot more in theory
- titanic : around 90% of the ship is cargospace
- GMG whale : around 90% is cargospace
- trains : like mastodon its cargospace is attachable
- behemoth : around 60% is cargospace
judging from the images - i expect it to have around 20-30% cargospace at most compared to its size.
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - Hades - 08-01-2011
' Wrote:some hardcaps that you should consider :I'm not saying it should be larger from size, if I were, due to it being nearly three times larger than the prison liner, I would have said something more akin to 9000 instead of 6000.
- no transport must have more than 5k cargo - unless its called a "barge"
no matter the size! - if we say that a ship 8 times larger than a lib DN must have 8 times the cargo or 8 times the armour, you really don t wanne fight a juggernaut - and after around 4 hours chainfiring on a barge, you d switch the game off - out of boredom. ( just like the bargeplayer did 2 hours ago )
Quote:- no more than 32 turrets on a ship - more will require a hack, which exists but isn t planned ( cause really - 32 is enough )No way it's going to be that high. Not even close.
Quote:- please, do not create hybrid ships if possible - that means, do not mix shields, weapons, energycores etc. - hybrids always cause balance chaos!Perhaps it'd have to be similar to the turret splitting on caps in 4.86? Razors on those big eight spinal mounts, and the rest primaries. (all gunboat turrets of course)
Quote:- when its siriuswide available, it must be GREEN to sirius civilians, not white!Indeed, which is why I'm trying to shoot for green.
- when its WHITE - it is faction property! which is anything but free for all - consider that. ( cause when its white, you need to submit to whatever the faction asks you to do )
Quote:- when its a liner, think in terms of LINERS - what is important for a liner? weapons? or maybe rather active defense mechanicsms - like CMs and long range scanners, a quick charging cruisedrive, thruster etc.Something this large isn't going to be very effective at running. The Yacht gets away with it because it's so small, but mine, being as large as it is, can't really get away as effectively, as it poses a massive target to both cruise disrupt and shoot, which means a thruster would be of minimal assistance.
because:
- when its too close to a capital warship, it will also be considered as a capital warship - meaning, it will be a liner which police and military will really really dislike - and probably ban sooner or later - cause if they don t ... they ll have many many "civilian battleships" floating around. ( if its green to all )
Long range scanners, huh? How would that be implemented and how would they be any better than any other ship's scanners? Please do elaborate.
It's also not even close to a warship. It's a large target, at nearly 800 meters long, and most of its turrets wouldn't even be able to fire the length of the ship. The razors are only for getting gunboats to screw off, as hitting snubs with them would be a lot more problematic unless the snub tries jousting the thing shieldless, in which case, as I feel when one tries jousting my cruiser, it deserves the razor (or in the case of the cruiser, a mortar) to the face.
Due to the spread out razors, aiming with them would also be fairly difficult, as some would be closer to the target than others, depending on the angle. Hell, most of the time, most ships, like a bomber with snacs, can just stay out of range and strafe kill it, due to the lack of a thruster and massive size.
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - Daedric - 08-01-2011
' Wrote:why do people keep saying "it has too many guns" it has less guns than ALL the other liners in the game and is like 2x as big as them, please use your eyes and brains in tandem when posting.
' Wrote:I can't help but agree with this statment 150%.
' Wrote:Actually, there's more than the eight gunboat razors, which are more for fending off gunboats than fighters or bombers, as razors are best against the latter when jousting, and you likely won't do much of that in this. There will be maybe about 10-17 more turret slots, but instead being transport turrets, which really isn't a huge amount considering a few of those can only fire to one side, there's only three placed on each side, and most transport turrets like type fours are very low range.
Enterprise - 11
Prison - 9
Royal - 9
Slave - 11
Perhaps, Scott and Hidamari the two of you should use your eyes and brains in tandem when posting, si?
I love the model, as for the suggested stats and weaponry? That typically isn't the choice of the person submitting the model. More the realm of the balance dev team.
I think my most favorite thing about the model though, is the modular characteristic of it. Wish that was a characteristic put into other newer models!
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - Govedo13 - 08-01-2011
I must agree with Jinx, the freelancer engine just does not work good with so huge ships in general, this will die from titan npc swarm for example if it does not mount cruiser like shield,and if it mount such it wont be able to pass the balance team, so such size could not be any bonus for the ship anyway, I hope you understand what I mean in general.
I would say to resize it to the size of the Luxury liner, add 120 k core with 12k recharge, GB shield and 15 Transport guns - and really cruiser like hp and bots/bats. There is no real gain or sense to have zillion guns when they does not cover even the range of the ship, adding long range transport guns with hard-coded mounts for this model will do the job perfect.But it is just me.
And if this will gonna be free civilian ship how you would buy it since Coalition is rep-hacked with the rest of Sirius?
Or you will add in the ship lore that it is coalition design leaked on the free market so it would be able to be bought on freeports freelancer base etc?
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - SMI-Great.Fox - 08-07-2011
Any recent developments?
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - AeternusDoleo - 08-07-2011
' Wrote:url=http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?file=Hades_Hemera_Collage.png]http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?f...era_Collage.png[/url]I like the design and it's quality, however, pushing this into service as a Civlian Liner won't be a good idea because there are only very few factions that can use liners. My suggestion would be to remove those 4 forward weapon gimbals at the bow, then rescaling it down to the size of say, an Akegata, and in doing so create a good, reliable heavy armored transport. If you want them to be Coalition made, you can resell them through the Zoners in Omega 50 under the guise of giving the civilians better protection. In respect to the Akegata: More armor, less maneuverability, slightly bigger model.
Basically, it's Coalition produced to provide a sturdier and cheaper alternative to the Libertonian made Enterprise class liner, while being less specialized and able to be a modular design that can be refit when needed, if you need a prison liner, it can be refit for that purpose, need it for diplomatic duties such as an ambassador's ship, or as a luxory liner, etc etc. This is to allow a more broad range of possible RP than I feel the smaller ships allow.
Turrets on the model aren't going to stay, they are merely there for show. The ship would be about the length of a Rheinland battleship.
Thoughts?
I count 8 turretslots, dorsal and ventral mount for half each, which is fine. Most of those can have a good arc. Wouldn't hurt to add maybe 1 or 2 on the sides, to make sure each arc is covered by at least 8 transport turrets. In doing so a reliable battle transport is created, which would see a fair bit of use among those who prefer safety over maximum cargo.
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - SMI-Great.Fox - 08-13-2011
Updates yet?..
Any texturing done and/or such?
Coalition made, Civilian Liner - Hades - 08-13-2011
Not yet, I've been pretty constrained on time lately, what with school starting up soon and the such. I'll have to try to get time to texture it, but if someone else volunteers before then I'd have no problem with sending it off to them.
' Wrote:I like the design and it's quality, however, pushing this into service as a Civlian Liner won't be a good idea because there are only very few factions that can use liners. My suggestion would be to remove those 4 forward weapon gimbals at the bow, then rescaling it down to the size of say, an Akegata, and in doing so create a good, reliable heavy armored transport. If you want them to be Coalition made, you can resell them through the Zoners in Omega 50 under the guise of giving the civilians better protection. In respect to the Akegata: More armor, less maneuverability, slightly bigger model.It's not 'truly' civilian, it'd only be available to whom it would make sense, like the Zoners, house and police factions, corporations, etc, mostly the same as current liners. A generic battle transport doesn't really make sense either because civilian traders (or independent traders) can't really use anything with battle transport level cargo. The houses could, and so could the Zoners, but why would they need to? Most of the houses already have one and the Zoners would probably prefer to use a Whale or BWT.
I count 8 turretslots, dorsal and ventral mount for half each, which is fine. Most of those can have a good arc. Wouldn't hurt to add maybe 1 or 2 on the sides, to make sure each arc is covered by at least 8 transport turrets. In doing so a reliable battle transport is created, which would see a fair bit of use among those who prefer safety over maximum cargo.