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+--- Thread: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. (Feedback Time) (/showthread.php?tid=146435)
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Laura C. - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 01:18 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:This needs to be solved by admins by either better wording of the ID, or greentext/change of the rules which will state that roleplay consequencies may not be made for violations in another house´s system (despite it´s part of ZOI). On the other hand, it may also cause awkward situations when for example someone attacks RM patrol in O-3 and then will claim in Rheinland to be law abiding citizen (and because of the rule, lawfuls would have to treat him like that).(12-22-2016, 12:51 AM)Croft Wrote: Do keep in mind that even without this addition both sides could still potentially follow someone until the next House, they just couldn't act. Though nothing prevents them taking proof of someone docking on Freeport 1 or calling in backup from their opposite, the only choice for escape remains the same.
Just that a RM taking a docking screenshot of a Hessian on FP1 would not be legitimate to force roleplay consequences, as - in the past - the RM had no ZoI there. Therefore he can take the screenshot, but he cannot do anything with it and there cannot be roleplay consequences because he is out of ZoI.
Quote:- House Miltary, Police and Intelligence factions may enforce roleplay consequences only for actions occurring within their ZOI.
So yes, this extension makes a huge difference because now (depending on how you interpret the rules), exactly this "I screen and have consequences follow" might be possible now.
A more detailled discussion of exactly these cases can be found here: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=146453
Anyway, admins should look into this. I am quite surprise there were no issues with LN ID which technically allows LN to enforce Liberty laws in Bretonia and even (in theory) make roleplay consequencies from it.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Shush Muppet - 12-22-2016
I am... concerned. Zealot and Jack have brought up some good points. Discovery doesn't really feel wild and unexplored anymore.
I had always thought that the house militaries and police could only patrol house systems, and that the only "law" in the border and edge worlds was the Bounty Hunter's Guild.
But I haven't seen an Bounty Hunter Guild pilot since they were kicked out of Kusari. Now all I see is paramilitary "Core" ships, which are not the same thing.
There really isn't anywhere left to run that isn't claimed by someone looking to enforce their version of law and order. And that is sad. Sure, you could always choose to hang out in the Nomad systems, but those Nommie NPCs make it awful hard.
Currently, the Disco map looks like a Monopoly board with no empty properties. We just do lap after lap, collecting $200 and paying all the taxes to whomever owns the space we have landed on. And hence, we are all cookie-cutter pilots made from cookie-cutter templates in a cookie-cutter galaxy.
Not much left to 'discover', in all honesty.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Laura C. - 12-22-2016
I will rather put it there too so admins can think about it:
(12-22-2016, 09:25 AM)Laura C. Wrote: it won´t stop for example indies from enforcing laws in another house. Possible solution I see is to not add Omega-3/O-7 as part of ZOI, but only add line worded something like "Can enforce Rheinland laws and assist Rheinland lawfuls in Omega-7" for BAF and "Can enforce Bretonian laws and assist Bretonian lawfuls in Omega-3" for RM.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - xiphos - 12-22-2016
I would like to see something like this happens to the KNF ID and the Frankfurt ZOI or the RM for a Honshu ZOI.
But the ID's need atleast a no Capship line if we are really going down this way.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - FallenKnight - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 01:18 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: A more detailled discussion of exactly these cases can be found here: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=146453Bumping this thread for the admins to double check. A lot of reasonable points were raised inside as well. The extended ZOI is fine as long as its properly worded, so no misunderstandings nor gaps to be on the line for ill-behavior players to abuse.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Croft - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 03:25 AM)Shush Muppet Wrote: I am... concerned. Zealot and Jack have brought up some good points. Discovery doesn't really feel wild and unexplored anymore.
I had always thought that the house militaries and police could only patrol house systems, and that the only "law" in the border and edge worlds was the Bounty Hunter's Guild.
But I haven't seen an Bounty Hunter Guild pilot since they were kicked out of Kusari. Now all I see is paramilitary "Core" ships, which are not the same thing.
There really isn't anywhere left to run that isn't claimed by someone looking to enforce their version of law and order. And that is sad. Sure, you could always choose to hang out in the Nomad systems, but those Nommie NPCs make it awful hard.
Currently, the Disco map looks like a Monopoly board with no empty properties. We just do lap after lap, collecting $200 and paying all the taxes to whomever owns the space we have landed on. And hence, we are all cookie-cutter pilots made from cookie-cutter templates in a cookie-cutter galaxy.
Not much left to 'discover', in all honesty.
House police can only operate within their borders but since the military ID's have a bigger selection of ships and playgrounds they've basically overshadowed the police minus the TLAGS system but power creep somewhat of a common theme in Disco, one only need to look at the Outcasts sitting in Liberty as proof of that.
So technically the BHG are still the "law" in those areas but with a lack of pirates on the lanes they've not had much reason to venture outwards.
The map on the otherhand is in the midst of a tug-of-war, some cry out for less systems, others cry out for more systems and the dev team is stuck in the middle like a zookeeper surrounded by screeching howler monkeys. However I'd suggest not using terms if you don't understand them, the only part of Disco that falls under the "cookie-cutter" heading is arguably some of the factions but its a stretch to call any of them copies.
As for the mods name, I believe its a relic from its past back when Discovery was ship pack (which is why we have things like the Battlestar and Star Destroyer models). Though I find it telling that few consider that Discovery may also involve discovering players and characters as opposed to empty regions of space.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Petitioner - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 02:04 PM)Croft Wrote: wordsWell said, fam. More systems is only conducive to the mod when it's conducive to player interaction, and systems were removed because they weren't conducive to player interaction. Adding more systems would make it harder to come across other players, would make running and hiding too easy, and would make balancing (namely trading) more difficult.
As Discovery as a mod and a community has evolved, so too has the interpretation of the name; just think, there was a time when @Igiss asked people not to use FLCompanion, but to instead "discover" everything on their own, because "things [were] generally placed in logical locations" (though note bene this was also a time when a highly sought-after codename, I believe it was ARCHANGEL, was on a Council HF wreck over 120k above the plane in an obscure corner of Gallia, back when Gallia was over twice as big as it is now).
In my personal opinion, I think we're now at the point where we need to be more character-driven and less story-driven. The mod exists to provide setting, context, and give characters something to strive for, but ultimately, I don't view it as something to define roleplay, but rather essentially to enhance it.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Shush Muppet - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 02:04 PM)Croft Wrote: However I'd suggest not using terms if you don't understand them, the only part of Disco that falls under the "cookie-cutter" heading is arguably some of the factions but its a stretch to call any of them copies.
I'm fairly confident I know what "cookie-cutter" means, thanks.
Unlike what may have been inferred, I am not advocating for more systems.
I am advocating for edge worlds to become ownerless. I'm tired that every single system has somebody who rules it with battleships and sanctions. We need more lawless space where the only assurance of safety is the number of guns on your ship.
Everything just feels too... sterile. Too controlled. Too micromanaged. Put one toe out of line and you get written up because someone reported you just cuz they didn't like your RP.
I dunno, maybe I'm just expecting too much from a game released in 2000.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Engel - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 06:19 PM)Shush Muppet Wrote: I dunno, maybe I'm just expecting too much from a game released in 2000.
Excuse me, good sir, but it was released in 2003.
RE: Admin Notice: ZOI changes for RM, BDM, BAF and BIS. - Blodwyn O'Driscoll - 12-22-2016
(12-22-2016, 10:42 AM)FallenKnight Wrote: InRP you are aware Breotnia cant handle all fronts...and now is the best time to warm the relations with Rheinland and possibly return the favor being with extensive trading partnerships exclusive to Rheinland, filling their pockets, or by small squadrons to assist them if needed.
If it's clearly understandable that Bretonian, exhausted by two wars and surrounded by enemies, would try to have Rheinland protecting o-3. In fact Bretonia should not be able to hold omega-3 properly without endangering its other frontsor collapsing at all, so let's not speak about patroling omega-7.
I guess the situation is quite different for Rheinland, even if the last war with Liberty should have left the former ( or both of them ) bled dry... somehow.
My question would be what is the interrest of rheinland to protect Bretonia ? Isn't rheinland having already home issues ? IS this a way to create an opportunity to size O-3 for itself ?
Would the Corsairs or Hessians have not been able to push onward in o-3 and capture some of the less defended stations, especially thoses far away from the lanes ?
Lot of question, right.
But to put it bluntly : i found this additional ZOIs, not really matching the current course of events ( i would say even, the contrary of the current situation ) . Am i the only one to see it through the lens of RP ?