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+--- Thread: Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... (/showthread.php?tid=14677)
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Xoria - 12-26-2008
' Wrote:We don't assume anything of the sort. We politely ask people to register when we first notice a cap that's not on the list. After all, these people are generally new, half of them haven't even registered on the forums. We don't 'bully' people anymore. We politely ask. Then we politely ask again. Then we politely ask again. Then we ask not so politely. Then we ask pretty nastily. THEN we order and get the Doomfleet on. Then, after all the asking politely and not-so-politely they STILL refuse to cooperate, we start shooting. We WILL stop shooting if they agree. The objective is to help teach these players how to RP here to maintain a healthy server community, not give Mallorca rings (as pretty as that would be).
For the love of god, we DO give them the benefit of the doubt. We assume they haven't seen the forums and hence the cap register, hence the whole 'Politely Asking' phases of cap registration.
You are simply illustrating my point for me here. Declining to register does not make someone a non-roleplaying cap abuser, but they are treated that way if they decline to register : "Then we ask pretty nastily. THEN we order and get the Doomfleet on. Then, after all the asking politely and not-so-politely they STILL refuse to cooperate, we start shooting. "
Registering does not magically transform a non-roleplaying cap abuser into the opposite. Registration accomplishes nothing other than creating the basis for an us vs them mentality and the automatic assumption that someone who hasn't registered is guilty of something. That IS the practical effect of it, as demonstrated by the way both factionalized players and even non-factionalized players behave when a new capship shows up. The facts of on-server behavior on the part of factionalized and non-factionalized members contradict the intent that you claim.
' Wrote:So cap registration is inherently cynical? I don't get it.:mellow:
Yes it is, and you're right : you don't.
Flip the purpose of your capship list the other way as Snapp suggested and you remove the negative practical consequences of labeling everyone who isn't registered as guilty of something, while still preserving the practical usefulness of the list : identifying people who need to improve. You also get a MUCH shorter list that way, which is far easier to use and manage effectively. It's counterintuitive, but the exercise of less overt control actually leads to better results.
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Kambei - 12-26-2008
If we cant restrict indie ships of same faction... we can buy battleship of oposit faction )(corectly IDed and taged of corse hehe) and pew pew him every time until he start to be bored and stop usin our ship:Pdirty but legal:P
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Xing - 12-26-2008
I find it funny that 3 of the most reknown "indie" battleship commanders around have voted yes.
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - swift - 12-26-2008
' Wrote:I find it funny that 3 of the most reknown "indie" battleship commanders around have voted yes.
It is, of course, probably so because they are aware of the intentions that it be reasonable "control", not a dictatorship of any sorts. They are probably aware that it would not take much, that it would be easy if you have good intentions.
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Eppy - 12-26-2008
Quote:You are simply illustrating my point for me here. Declining to register does not make someone a non-roleplaying cap abuser, but they are treated that way if they decline to register : "Then we ask pretty nastily. THEN we order and get the Doomfleet on. Then, after all the asking politely and not-so-politely they STILL refuse to cooperate, we start shooting. "
Registering does not magically transform a non-roleplaying cap abuser into the opposite. Registration accomplishes nothing other than creating the basis for an us vs them mentality and the automatic assumption that someone who hasn't registered is guilty of something. That IS the practical effect of it, as demonstrated by the way both factionalized players and even non-factionalized players behave when a new capship shows up. The facts of on-server behavior on the part of factionalized and non-factionalized members contradict the intent that you claim.
No, it doesn't magically incite any transformation. Its job is to introduce the concept of Disco's RP in regards to capships to players who have never encountered it before. The reason everybody has to register is because it wouldn't be fair if we singled out certain people who had to register. You want fair play? We'll GIVE you fair play. It's not difficult, it's not hard, it's not demeaning. All you have to do is say you've seen the thread and will not do the things you are asked not to do (namely, try and take over planet Manhattan and hunt Nomads). Refusing to register is a needless rebellion.
Quote:Flip the purpose of your capship list the other way as Snapp suggested and you remove the negative practical consequences of labeling everyone who isn't registered as guilty of something, while still preserving the practical usefulness of the list : identifying people who need to improve. You also get a MUCH shorter list that way, which is far easier to use and manage effectively. It's counterintuitive, but the exercise of less overt control actually leads to better results.
So, you're telling me I should do the thing I most want to avoid, namely, include only people whose RP I feel is substandard? You know what I think that would do? Make them angry at me, the 101st, factions in general, and players who have not been mentioned. Why should we single out people and try and help them when we could simply give them a way to help themselves without shaming them? If they need more than what the thread already offers there are instructions in there to PM me for personal help. That's the most I foresee going in that direction, Xoria, unless, of course, you want me to single out people and make them feel like failures at a game, a place where they come to have fun.
Quote:Yes it is, and you're right : you don't.
No, it's not, and I think you don't get it, sir-it's not a cynical approach. It's an all-inclusive approach. If you already understand you just buy your Destroyer and say you've read the guidelines. If you don't understand it and are new then, by a generalized, all-inclusive process, you have been shown that you need to learn more, and how to go about learning that, without being publicly shamed, as you would have me do.
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Patriot - 12-26-2008
WOW!!!!!
You are all still talking about those capital ship.......HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Get over it for god sake.......since i start here on this server i buy:
1 Liberty Carrier
[color=#c0c0c0]1 Rheinland battleship
[color=#663300]1 Bretonian Battleship
[color=#ff6600]1 Outcast Battleship
[color=#99ffff]1 Order Battleship
[color=#ff0000]And all resale or delete
And now i got the Zoners one,The juggernault,and im near to resale it too,whats your point to argue like that about those ship.;...
I mean now in ALL house,we have restriction about those ship,only faction can fly those capital ship in her system or you all bring all what you got and destroy the independant........
Its very easy to understand,[color=#ff0000]YOU MAKE RULES FOR BE SURE YOU STAY SUPERIOR...........Its pathetic,but what we can do.....nothing.
Its exactly like you vs the indies capship owner.............WHAT CAN YA DO.........NOTHING.
Now go play the GAME and get over it DAMMIT
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Xing - 12-26-2008
well, congratulation Patriot. But some people do experience problem with abusive capital vessels.
Spoiling the fun of others with someone you gained with mere patience can be annoying. This is why it requires some responsibility.
And while most of those on forum do have this responsibility, we must all pay for the stupidity of a few who has no regard to others.
Rules are not - well, are not supposed to be there for power hungry players, but because we live in a society.
This said, I consider myself the 4th known indie battleship commander to vote "Yes".
That makes... Tenabras, Aurora, Thunderbay and the Amaterasu (ex-Citadelle de Quebec) signatories of this.
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - X-Lancer - 12-26-2008
voted yes...Faction should make the place they RP in become a place good for RP......LN has done good job on that..(even IMO their cap still on high population.).......
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - teschy - 12-26-2008
The official factions should be in control of them... but I'm really hoping the admins won't interfere in this matter.
I would also like to point out something about this so called 'cap-whoring'. So, you're wondering in your fighter, planning to raid a popular location. Such as... Manhattan, Crete, Malta.. etc. If you see a battleship and 1 or 2 fighters/ guarding one of these locations, you don't just jump in and attack them, and then call Battleship a cap-whore, he was just defending the planet. Next time, plan your raid somewhere less populated, or organize a better ambush.
Capwhoring is the abusive behavior of a capital ship, towards an undefended or poorly defended location. Such as the 'New york's pirate night fleet', or the usual Bounty Hunter Battlecruiser chasing Titans and Sabres, or even the swarm of corsair missileboats attacking traders in New Berlin..
So, before calling someone a cap-whore for defending itself, better not attack unless you've got the real support.
Faction Control of Capital Ships... or... - Reverend Del - 12-26-2008
Eppy, you are one of the few people I know that does not see Xoria's reasonable posts and take them as such. Cap-ship registration is all inclusive yes, but it says "If you refuse to register, we'll kill you" It's a very negative mind-set. In fact it is about the single worst example to set a new player. "My way or the highway" is not a mindset I like, nor should the rest of you. This is a game, and as everyone agrees we're all here to have fun. Being forced to come to the forums and do something is not fun. Whilst the forums are an impressive resource for the game, they are NOT essential for the game. In fact some of the finest server players spend not a lot of time here.
The only group of people that should be dictating how this game is played is the team you helped select, the Admins, and the only way we want to dictate is according to the rules of this server. Restricting purchase of ships is contrary to the spirit of inclusiveness that this mod is supposed to have. Incidentally this spirit of inclusiveness should NOT be levelled at just those that post here on these forums, but at everyone who plays on this server.
Now I understand the need to reduce capship abuse, even today I had a cruiser open fire on me simply because I called him a fool for parking in front of a tradelane, I have had my solitary Hyena chased by a BC, I have been ganked by nothing but cap-ships in my Xeno, I have seen it, I know it exists and I know it's rough on those that experience it. But I do not believe every capship owner is guilty of this unless proven not to be. I have policies for the Rogues that not everyone agrees with, but I do not enforce them with fire and I never will, because to do so would be WRONG. So long as their enjoyment of the game does not prove to be the detriment of a large number of people it is fine. At the point it becomes a problem, then something should be done. Innocent until proven guilty is a benefit of most civilised nations, why do some not enjoy that privilege here?