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+--- Thread: Do too many factions have capital ships? (/showthread.php?tid=74368)
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Stealthsultn - 02-17-2012
Quote:It is completely wrong to assume that outcasts are dependant on ONE thing only. Just as the Corsair empire isnt completely reliant on artifacts. The main thing of the corsair empire is piracy, regarding the statement about "fully controlled systems"
What else do the outcasts produce then? I was not trying to bring "realism" into freelancer but taking a look at how the economy could function.
I'll make a general statement then: you cannot maintain a country/nation/planet/military on drugs.
So; what else do the outcasts produce for export?
(I don't care if your ships run on artificial singularities because that is a question that goes against RP, this goes with RP)
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Lonely_Ghost - 02-17-2012
Quote:I'll make a general statement then: you cannot maintain a country/nation/planet/military on drugs.
Strong enough argument. But however, attempts to find any logic point, or logic actions here would be like trying to detect alien transmission with radio function in your cell phone.
About maintaining military- I realized my own mistake. There could not be military or navy, like any of houses has in Outcasts. I realy can't forget Blodo's opinion, that good OC's player faction would be something like Umbrela corp. It has combat forces even with caps, but no large enough. Still, Outcasts could export some research resoults to their alies.
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Vladimir - 02-17-2012
Well let's just be all honest here. Caps were added back then, added for everybody important back then, just to have a cool ship. Times changed, disco became more rpish. Some utterly unfitting things like phantoms decided to go. Some utterly ufnitting things, like sair ossies and weird, i.e. unlawful, bunter or zoner battleships in general, did not. And in order to make it fair for other people other things to counter that are getting added, like more weird battleships.
I'd frankly love battleship weapons to be rebalanced in a way that does not let them shoot fighters really, and to remove bots from caps, and to make it impossible for fighter to hurt bs. So that they paths don't cross. Or actually add some bombers that can kill battleships easily but then they're being eaten alive by fighters, not like now, and we'll have a fleet battles but no capganks. Fun!
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Laerethe - 02-17-2012
' Wrote:Well let's just be all honest here. Caps were added back then, added for everybody important back then, just to have a cool ship. Times changed, disco became more rpish. Some utterly unfitting things like phantoms decided to go. Some utterly ufnitting things, like sair ossies and weird, i.e. unlawful, bunter or zoner battleships in general, did not. And in order to make it fair for other people other things to counter that are getting added, like more weird battleships.
I'd frankly love battleship weapons to be rebalanced in a way that does not let them shoot fighters really, and to remove bots from caps, and to make it impossible for fighter to hurt bs. So that they paths don't cross. Or actually add some bombers that can kill battleships easily but then they're being eaten alive by fighters, not like now, and we'll have a fleet battles but no capganks. Fun!
Why is it weird to allow Corsairs to use the Osiris? The Corsairs built the ships under Order contract.
I agree that Zoner fleets make little sense, seeing as they are a neutral faction; pirates tend to respect the asset of the Zoners, and bombers are generally sufficient. Bounty Hunter isn't so bad, seeing as they have to counteract unlawful fleets.
Its not easy to hit fighters with your battleships; Solaris are a waste of time for anything but snubs. If the fighters are any good, you won't hit em anyway, especially with regular secondaries. When there is a snub-war, I tend to just supply my side and only fire on them if engaged.
Bombers can already easily kill battleships, and are already trashed by fighters; capganks happen, as do fleet battles. Just depends on if you're lucky with the players you get.
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Stealthsultn - 02-17-2012
I should have stated it earlier; I have no problem with the OCs and sairs having frigates and the like; dreadnaughts and fleets seem totally ridiculous however.
We could all do with less battleships by my estimation :lol:
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Laerethe - 02-17-2012
I really don't understand why it is so unbelievable for two groups who rightfully should be a house of their own to have a strong military; especially the Corsairs, who built with The Order.
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Klaw117 - 02-18-2012
The Corsairs and the Outcasts are funded by smuggling and pirating. This is significantly lower than what the Houses can bring in through taxes and corporate resources. Plus, the Corsairs and the Outcasts have a much lower population. They don't have the manpower to sustain a military as strong as the Houses.
As for the Corsairs owning the Osiris, it's not really that weird, but the argument supporting it is a weak one. It would be very unlikely that the Order, a faction dedicated to stopping the Nomads and the spread of Nomad technology, would ally with the Corsairs, a ruthless pirate faction that would kill another human without hesitation and makes the vast majority of its money through Nomad artifact smuggling. The only reason the alliance happened was because the Order needed Tripoli Shipyard, but there were plenty of other alliance choices for the Order to make if it really had to.
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Laerethe - 02-18-2012
' Wrote:The Corsairs and the Outcasts are funded by smuggling and pirating. This is significantly lower than what the Houses can bring in through taxes and corporate resources. Plus, the Corsairs and the Outcasts have a much lower population. They don't have the manpower to sustain a military as strong as the Houses.
What is that based on? Assumptions? Remember that just because the Houses make more, that doesn't mean that the Corsairs/Outcasts don't make enough to support a fleet.
' Wrote:As for the Corsairs owning the Osiris, it's not really that weird, but the argument supporting it is a weak one. It would be very unlikely that the Order, a faction dedicated to stopping the Nomads and the spread of Nomad technology, would ally with the Corsairs, a ruthless pirate faction that would kill another human without hesitation and makes the vast majority of its money through Nomad artifact smuggling. The only reason the alliance happened was because the Order needed Tripoli Shipyard, but there were plenty of other alliance choices for the Order to make if it really had to.
The Order needed the help of the Corsairs; they were too weak and didn't have the resources to build a fleet capable of resisting the alien threat. On pain of human extermination, they allied with the Corsairs. Also remember that the Corsairs were under threat; living in such close proximity to the Nomad worlds is a risky business.
Besides, its not really relevant that they could have gone somewhere else; the lore is the lore and is not debatable.
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Gamerofthegame - 02-18-2012
I suppose it largely depends on your interpretation of things. Are battleships super massive things that require tons of crew? Do they require specialized shipyards, etc?
For your RP excuse of these factions having things... How different are the large transports from the military ships? For a analogy, take the modern world. Big tankers could be a bit up armored and given weapons. Do they? Obviously not, but when the weapons themselves and the ammo aren't to much of a concern... They could, technically.
So in the decentralized realm of Sirus, why not have low key people have capital ships? Not a lot, of course, but some.
Even if things don't make technical sense, it's been, what, twenty years since the actual storyline? Things change! Change them, adjust things to make it work. Hordes of samey fighters aren't as fun as accenting those hordes of samey fighters with some bigger things.
Why not?
But.
I do think they should be player-faction only things, as both a incentive for people to join up together and to keep people from trippin' caps.
Do too many factions have capital ships? - Klaw117 - 02-18-2012
' Wrote:What is that based on? Assumptions? Remember that just because the Houses make more, that doesn't mean that the Corsairs/Outcasts don't make enough to support a fleet.Oh, they can have a fleet, but they would still have nowhere near as many ships as a House fleet. I know it was established somewhere that the Hispanic factions had a lower population due to early starvation and issues with reproduction/population control.
The Order needed the help of the Corsairs; they were too weak and didn't have the resources to build a fleet capable of resisting the alien threat. On pain of human extermination, they allied with the Corsairs. Also remember that the Corsairs were under threat; living in such close proximity to the Nomad worlds is a risky business.
Besides, its not really relevant that they could have gone somewhere else; the lore is the lore and is not debatable.
There's obviously nothing that we can do about the Order-Corsair Alliance now, but in the beginning, Igiss could've chosen any other faction that would have made better sense than the Corsairs. And the Corsairs living near Nomad systems is irrelevant. The Nomads never came close to Planet Crete or anywhere near the Corsairs bases. They were only limited to that nebula cloud in northern Omicron Gamma. Besides, Alaska had Nomad patrols in it also. Liberty was just as vulnerable as the Corsairs.