Quote:Simply 'raiding' an enemy base system casue you can is simply a bad idea, RP wise, and should be potently scantionable (the above mentioned outcast dready @ WP for example......)
I want to hear your proposal. You say Liberty/Rheinland war is okay, but other things aren't.
So we will sanction every single out of ZoI cap, then sort them out later? Or will they need to come in system, announce the RP reason for them being there?
No sarcasm here, I want to know how you would do things. Seems like you'd like to.
' Wrote:so you want players such as myself, who have been here for over 6 months and are proven good roleplayers, to follow restrictions put in place simply because a few capwhores couldnt keep their tools in their pants when confronted by a lesser foe?
You stated yourself that you want to fly a cap and don't want to go through the role play promotions to get to a cap (not in so many words ... but basically do what you wanna do). Truth is Tenacity ... you hold a higher rank than actual members of Bs| yet you are not part of the faction. How the heck can that be? An indie outranking a system owning faction member? Well ... that's some creative role playing. Its called having your cake and eating it too.
Your Order cap is a loop hole in the faction rules. Factions are required to limit their caps in their factions am I correct? So the way around this is to have an indie buy a cap and then the faction gives him full rank and privileges as if he were a faction member. Call a spade whatever you want ... its still a spade.
What I'd like to see with your character Tenacity is to have it place the Bs| in front of the ships name. You've told me he's already a senior member of the Order and you're pretty much one of the top 3 ranks. Why not make it official and have Bs| in front of your name?
Quote:Harsh way of putting it, I know - but we shouldnt be restricting everyone for the actions of a few. Let those few get reported and banned or sanctioned when they slip up.
Hey ... I'm not the guy that started this thread. I just threw my 2 cents in. We all have our opinions. And we all have our freedom of speech. Would you rather I be silenced because I go against the grain? Should I be censored because you and I disagree on this issue? Harsh I know ... but take my comments and at least consider them before trashing them.
' Wrote:Interesting to see how the things unfold come 4.85
Caps are restricted to Guard IDs and Guard IDs are restricted to ZOIs, so free roaming in caps will see some changes.
All the BH BCs -> BH GSs. I'm actually envisioning the hordes of BH GS coming to get you with 3> missile turrets.
' Wrote:Interesting to see how the things unfold come 4.85
Caps are restricted to Guard IDs and Guard IDs are restricted to ZOIs, so free roaming in caps will see some changes.
All the BH BCs -> BH GSs. I'm actually envisioning the hordes of BH GS coming to get you with 3> missile turrets.
Get your cruise disruptor and NPC umbrellas ready!
There are people that RP capital ships very well and there are people who don't do that great. Hopefully 4.85 will change that. Battleships will become rare, a few battle cruisers here and there, and cruisers... Well they will become rare too. But as the amount of cap ships goes down, the amount cap ships that are RPed well will go up, well at least I hope that's what happens.
Do you think a player faction should have the right to dictate anyone else's (indies who are RPing a character of the same NPC faction) ship choice and RP?
Now if you'd kindly scroll up you'll see that my comment regarding undocking to 3 BH BC's was directed at Laowai and NOT you. Glad you feel my pain ... but I seriously doubt Laowai has a clue.
Baltar
You seem to take the fact that i don't agree with your opinion or recommendations personally which is unfortunate. You also make the false assumption that i know nothing about you in your first post (which isn't true as i have actually Role Played with Black.Pearl in game and know that you do it well) whilst then going on to make the same assumption you accuse me of with this post - claiming that i don't have a clue about this issue. Nothing i have said is personal against yourself, i merely disagree with your opinion and the suggestion you put forward and outlined my reasons for doing so.
I have, like most players on this server, been at the receiving end of players in capital ships who have as i said, no respect and no role play. I have also been on the receiving end of those who do exactly what you have said and "go for the kill" every time. Thus I do have a slight "clue" as you put it in regard to this topic.
Also - i am quite, quite aware of the corsair capital ship restrictions as i was among the corsair players who signed off on them and drafted them, i am also one of the players who has helped out with coaching new "cap ship" corsairs to sign up on that registry. I did however (and you may ask around) refuse to sign said registry myself firstly out of principle, and secondly out of RP until i was convinced by other veteran Corsair players that my character, being a Corsair Elder and all, would set a bad example if his cap ships were not on the registry.
This character is independent, yet i worked out an effective compromise with the faction leaders that made us all happy - those same factions have now, on many occasions called upon me and my non-factionalised cap-ships to join them in fights (where as i have said, i usually die horribly).
My view is people should have the freedom to fly whatever class of ship they like - within server rules and where applicable faction rule guidelines and i do not think a blanket restricting of cap-ships to factions only is an answer to this problem (and as a side note i think this problem is made out to be a lot worse than it actually is), nor is it fair to those players who for whatever reason wish to remain independent but wish to abide by community standards and Role Play.
I didn't read all messages in this thread, but if capships should be restricted, i can only think of one way;
"Capships (Battleship- and cruisersclass in particular) shouldn't go too far out of their ZoI if they're not escorted by a few fighters". This would at least take care of all the indy capships roaming around sirius looking for an easy fight. BountyHunters don't have a ZoI (afaik), but the caps for those are already getting restricted in 4.85. Zoners can go wherever they want, since they can't/won't/shouldn't attack unless it's in self defence.
The reason why i think a capship shouldn't leave it's ZoI on their own, is that it would be unprotected (A single group of 2 or 3 bombers can take it out without breaking a sweat). An organization wouldn't allow such expensive hardware being so vulnerable (nor would a proper captain).
The "fighters" part is to prevent big caps-only fleets.
' Wrote:A question, Baltar. Yes or no, no hostile intent.
Do you think a player faction should have the right to dictate anyone else's (indies who are RPing a character of the same NPC faction) ship choice and RP?
Personally ... NO.
However that is the reality of our situation. Corsair factions will KoS you if you purchased their uber-caps without permission ... I know because I was planning on purchasing one and was told I'd be KoS with all the Corsair factions. So ... while the rules would allow me to get the ship ... the factions would "dictate" whether I could have it or not.
Admins (long time ago) denied the rights of HF (Hellfire Legion) from dictating who could purchase the Spyglass.
I will say this ... if you plan to buy a capship and place that ID (such as Liberty, Rheinland or whatever) you have an obligation to listen to the system owning faction. So when LN tells an indie Liberty Gunboat with a Liberty Navy ID to cease fire on someone ... that indie better cease fire. As it stands now ... I'm gettin really annoyed at being attacked (doesn't matter which ship I'm flying) when an LN ship tells the indie to stop firing on me and the indie continues to tear me apart. Either LN runs Liberty or it doesn't. Same goes for Bs| and their ZoI. Does Bs| run the show or do the indies run the show? I find it very suspect to see a non-faction member giving orders to a member of the system owning faction. It just doesn't pass the logic test. All leaders of these factions need to ACTUALLY be members of the faction.
I do hope this makes sense.
@ Laowai: Sorry about jumping there Laowai. Please note ... I do make the attempt to role play despite the fact that my shield and hull are disappearing and I have no way of preventing it.
However that is the reality of our situation. Corsair factions will KoS you if you purchased their uber-caps without permission ... I know because I was planning on purchasing one and was told I'd be KoS with all the Corsair factions. So ... while the rules would allow me to get the ship ... the factions would "dictate" whether I could have it or not.
@ Laowai: Sorry about jumping there Laowai. Please note ... I do make the attempt to role play despite the fact that my shield and hull are disappearing and I have no way of preventing it.
No problem - If you really want to buy a Corsair cap ship and play a corsair, you dont have to join a faction to do it. All you need is a little RP, register it on the registry and stick by the RP - there are three factions in the corsairs, but their leaders are all good guys and i'd vouch for them. The ships arent restricted so much as monitored.
' Wrote:I want to hear your proposal. You say Liberty/Rheinland war is okay, but other things aren't.
So we will sanction every single out of ZoI cap, then sort them out later? Or will they need to come in system, announce the RP reason for them being there?
No sarcasm here, I want to know how you would do things. Seems like you'd like to.
Actualy Im more intersted in keeping sanctions DOWN (not that thats going to happen, since you get people who dislike eachother and sanction report as weapons against eachother. And thats within the LN by itself......)
We'll have to wait to see how the guard rep's work in .85 of course (or just make suggestions for .84 since its all we know about for sure........)
Anyway
1st- all ZOIs would tend to overplap a little bit (unlawful overlaping a LOT more than lawful). Fartherst caps would go is the edge of the overlap, but even then only with reason. Same should apply to all IDs really.
2- doing things like raiding a homeworld and sitting in its orbit blowing any naval vessels that show up SHOULD be sancationable. BHs in orbit of crete/alpha, order/outcast/HF in manhattan orbit, whatever.
3-Cap's should have defined duties they can do.
3a- Unlawful caps still cannot pirate (execpt WELL within their ZoI) but CAN act as support by staying nearby w/o engaging icnae there is combat and the smaller ships need it
3b- Lawful caps should be required to mostly just park @ a location when not moving. Theyre not roaving cops, but can stop what they run into. They can operate in their primary ZoI, but not outside it.
3- Pirates who just want to 'kill lawdogs' should be treated as teh PvP whores they are. If someone IS RPing a characther that only wants to do that, it should require an exemption, and LONG ban if they stop RPing (Shade is a good example of a lib unlawful)
I had more poitns but Im falling asleep here.
basicly get rid of the PvP whores and 90% of the problems go away.
Also, ech factiion should have a ZoI sheet, listing what they should/shouldnt do in differnt places. (within non execption RP) letting new players know running alaksa = death.
