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Civilian Cruiser

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Civilian Cruiser
Offline Xelon
10-30-2013, 04:14 PM,
#81
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Posts: 573
Threads: 18
Joined: Feb 2012

This new Idea of a "smaller" cruiser already exists, it's called the Gunboat.
Please just accept the fact that there won't be any civilian ships bigger than Gunboats until the ID changes, which I am pretty sure won't be happening anytime soon.
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Offline AeternusDoleo
10-30-2013, 09:29 PM,
#82
Ex-Developer
Posts: 5,744
Threads: 149
Joined: Nov 2009

Yea, echoing that sentiment. Civilian factions will not be getting cruisers. Them getting gunboats is already questionable in my eyes, but it's become a necessity.

The model on the front page reminds me a lot of the Homeworld 2 battlecruiser in general shape. And reminds me of the Arrow a bit too. But on steroids. Model is simple, but could be good depending on the texture job.

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Offline Trogdor
10-31-2013, 11:04 AM,
#83
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Posts: 1,236
Threads: 64
Joined: Feb 2009

...Meh. Whether or not it's 'lore friendly' or 'questionable' is a matter of perspective. I mean, look at classic pirate ships, whom depending on the size of the ship, might have anywhere between a couple dozen and a couple hundred crew. They had to have enough people to operate the boat, plus large boarding parties to fight the crew of the enemy ship, operate THAT boat if they chose to claim it, take losses, etc.

If you're wondering where I'm going with this, the point is that there is historical precedent for unaffiliated groups to operate large fighting vessels that were on par with what navies were fielding. And they were able to repair, resupply, etc at ports.. despite being independent.

Now, there are two other matters, one of which is that in history, these vessels were typically retrofitted trade ships that were captured... the pirate crews didn't pool large sums of cash and have a shipyard build something for them.
The other matter is whether this is good for the mod.. On one hand you've got the 'omg not more capspam' people. On the other hand, there are ways of dealing with this. You could place docking restrictions on the ID for ships of X class, like you do with the Zoner ID. Maybe they can only moor at junker/zoner/freelancer type bases. If they can dock in house, they'd have to avoid attention, as houses don't tolerate foreign caps wandering around their space. Or they'd have to roleplay with the house governments to obtain permission.
They could be used by freelancers, generic pirates, etc in the borderworlds, pursuing bounties, pirating, escorting, and whatnot.

I think it could be done, and I think it could be good, as long as some thought was put into its implementation. Rather than digging one's heels in and saying 'nope', could we maybe talk about how we could make this work?
Its firepower, core, armor, size, equipment, rules.. everything is undefined at this point.

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Offline Druen78
10-31-2013, 02:09 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-31-2013, 02:10 PM by Druen78.)
#84
Member
Posts: 330
Threads: 17
Joined: Sep 2010

Trogdor's post makes sense (although you shouldn't use Middle Age or Reinassance ages as a comparison here; in modern times there's no such thing as a civilian warship); I agree that in some cases, some non-military organizations might have the means and/or the resources to acquire or even produce a capital ship. I'm talking about tech coroporations mainly, like DSE or Ageira; they, in turn, could sell or lease some vessels to others. I agree that we can work out reasonable inRP and ooRP limitations to regulate its use.

As for the model, I think it's too much Star Wars-ish now; maybe add some details along that bare hull to dispel that impression.
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Offline Echo 7-7
10-31-2013, 02:11 PM,
#85
Masterful Modder
Posts: 4,077
Threads: 99
Joined: Sep 2006

(10-31-2013, 11:04 AM)Trogdor Wrote: ...
I think it could be done, and I think it could be good, as long as some thought was put into its implementation. Rather than digging one's heels in and saying 'nope', could we maybe talk about how we could make this work?
Its firepower, core, armor, size, equipment, rules.. everything is undefined at this point.

That discussion is unsuitable for a Ship Submission thread, since the concept extends beyond any one particular model. Regardless, the stats and final utilisation of said model may ultimately rest outside of the modeller's control.

There was a sig here, once.
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Offline Trogdor
10-31-2013, 07:05 PM,
#86
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Posts: 1,236
Threads: 64
Joined: Feb 2009

(10-31-2013, 02:11 PM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:
(10-31-2013, 11:04 AM)Trogdor Wrote: ...
I think it could be done, and I think it could be good, as long as some thought was put into its implementation. Rather than digging one's heels in and saying 'nope', could we maybe talk about how we could make this work?
Its firepower, core, armor, size, equipment, rules.. everything is undefined at this point.

That discussion is unsuitable for a Ship Submission thread, since the concept extends beyond any one particular model. Regardless, the stats and final utilisation of said model may ultimately rest outside of the modeller's control.

I think it is suitable, because if there's no niche for the model to fill, there's no point to continue working on it, is there?

The trend lately has been to replace 'oddball' ships with models that resemble other ships in their faction's line. This thing doesn't resemble anything any house or faction is fielding (with the possible exception of the Hessians, but they already have two cruisers) as it was meant to be a civtech ship. And so unless we can find a home for the model, why should the modeler continue with it?

[Image: i4h0ll.gif]
[Image: zonerzonerzoner.gif]
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Offline ssc
10-31-2013, 10:07 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-31-2013, 11:02 PM by ssc.)
#87
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Posts: 286
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012

Xelon Wrote:This new Idea of a "smaller" cruiser already exists, it's called the Gunboat.
Invalid argument, cause gunboats are too similar to each other in powercore, armor, and shielding. Quite frankly, gunships aren't that effective. Its also the fact that although there may be pirates with capital ships that can use them, most use a bomber instead cause of the "Ignore Shield Type" weapons(which to me is unbalanced and bombers should be using same weapons as all other fighters) take shields down and make it difficult for people to avoid getting destroyed.

The reason a form of "capital" based ships for civilians, those who are Mercs or freelancers, is cause of how the lore is moving towards. People like the idea of a form of a cruiser cause it gives options, meaning they can offer to escort into house space without restrictions. So its mainly cause of prohibition of other house naval forces entering another without consent, pirates using bombers that are overpowered with their primary weapons, and the direction in which the lore is going towards, a war on a galactic scale.

The ship on the front page is probably not going to be textured, a newer version might, if I can get it to work right, going to be a updated. Also still working on the "Shark" series.

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Offline Thyrzul
11-03-2013, 10:37 PM,
#88
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(10-31-2013, 10:07 PM)ssc Wrote: The reason a form of "capital" based ships for civilians, those who are Mercs or freelancers, is cause of how the lore is moving towards.

I'm pretty sure you don't have this much say in how the lore goes. And if it was just an observation, I bet it's kind of inaccurate.

(10-31-2013, 10:07 PM)ssc Wrote: they can offer to escort into house space without restrictions.

Foreign caps will never be allowed into house space by house laws without any special permission.

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Offline ssc
11-04-2013, 02:37 AM,
#89
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Posts: 286
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012

Reiterating your post from a earlier time of when this topic started doesn't make it correct Thy. And I will also say something from a pervious post I made, in different context: People that think a form of a capital ship(Gunships don't count cause they lack efficient power) to civilians, or a specific group gives the "Non-House" players a form of power no one of the houses really want to give.

I just love the fact that anyone who hear "Capital ship for civilians", they automatically think "OPed" Keep a open mind that capital ships for civilians doesn't mean everyone will be getting a cruiser the second it happens(though it would be hilarious if it did happen). I'm continuing with this project, its not only devs, but also public opinion that determines the outcome.

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Offline Thyrzul
11-04-2013, 07:41 AM,
#90
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(11-04-2013, 02:37 AM)ssc Wrote: capital ships for civilians doesn't mean everyone will be getting a cruiser the second it happens(though it would be hilarious if it did happen).

Technically it does mean that, just like how the server is filled with indie zoners flying with nephs all over the sector despite infocard stating how rare these things are. Only few roleplays them as such, and they are good where they are, outside of house space. And regardless of how many civilians would get stuff bigger than a gunboat, house laws still won't simply allow them into house space.

You can continue with the model, but as you said, opinion of community members counts as well, and my standpoint is that civilians should never have a cruiser or any ship bigger than that. This of course doesn't prohibit the model getting in-game.

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