Should a recommended ship list exist?

[bluntpencil2001]

Well, there isn't a...


[color=#FF0000]Report button



So we decided...


[color=#FF0000]To kill it with fire...

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[Akumabito]

I will concede this point with good grace, up til now I have done nothing against the flaming, and you are right, by not explicitly codemning it I am in fact condoning. I do not intend to. I do not support the flaming. Done.

Ah, very nice washing of the hands Pilate. (that's intended as a joke)

The faction leaders are a group, you are part of that group so you are equal to it's lowest common denominator in many ways.
What they do reflects on you, in the same way indies are asked to register even if they aren't doing anything wrong, except the
indies aren't really a group with a common goal other than trying to have fun on the server.

When you pay only the most menial lip service to improving the level of maturity that the faction leaders as a whole exhibit, but
make no real effort to address it, you are basically saying you are OK with that association.

Do you agree with that?

No your sig is a part of a direct quote from Unselie, it does not represent the whole facts of her post. Thusly it is misrepresentation.

The sig is a direct quote, Xoria demanded I remove the part with his name, so only what comes after is left unless I break the quote in the middle,
but the fact is that this is what Unselie said, and it wasn't, near as I could tell, Irony or sarcasm. There is no misrepresentation and anyone can click the
linky and read the whole thing.

To put some perspective on that, Unselie can be pretty certain (as can most of you I'm sure if you cared to really look at the event) that those
screenies of mine represent sarcasm rather than me telling someone I'm a bad rp'r, and MarvinCZ knows I didn't pvp whore those corsairs we
had just fought that I refered to, so he also knows it was irony, but they remain silent about it rather than say something, out of fear of Korrd I guess.

It only reinforces the quote of Unselies. A faction leader worthy of me wouldn't be petty, if he or she knew someone was being misrepresented,
even someone he or she found distasteful, they wouldn't hide the truth just to see someone else they didn't like suffer for it.

Would you?

Yes, but it is my choice of language that is at fault. The term I should have used was sanction. Suddenly it's a lot more quanitified.

A sanction can be overturned, simply point at your RP and say" Look there it is, is it acceptable enough to overturn this sanction?" There is no metric for this however and neither can there be. I do not know how they decide if an RP story is acceptable, but they do.

Not really, since sanctions vary widly from overlooking an offense to a maximum slam, and it's largely arbitrary, and possibly based on who makes the
report and who it is against rather than the actual violation and intent behind it.

Sanctions here do not get overturned, unless a faction is involved as near as I can see.

Also, without a metric the RP tollgate is arbitrary, so my argument hasn't changed here. You are building a system that is unfair, and will be more fair
to the factions than to the indies. I think that is the reason for the yellow part of the list, so that it favors faction control over indies.

Quite correct, however it removes an aspect of flexibility. Thusly stifling role-play. This is not good for a server that purports to be role-play based.

So does having any ship lists at all, or weapons lists, or rules. But I think we can both agree that the rules are needed to keep a certain amount of order on the server.

In keeping with that, a black and white list brings a large amount of needed order with really no impact on RP. You can still RP that character as much as you want
to in the correct ship.

Otherwise you haven't really changed anything with the list, have you?

Just last week you were a strong advocate of Independents being able to do whatever they wanted.

Not true, never have I said indies, or anyone should be able to do whatever they want.

For someone who rails against misrepresentation...

It would also limit what some Indepndents choose to do. What ship is Mon'Star to use when he is aligned to no faction within the scope of his RP?
How does your idea fit into Jinx's RP, given that Jinx is only ever active on an Independent character.

Limiting independents is OK, the rules already limit them. Are Monstar and Jinx really unable to exist if the server has a stricter ship/id policy? Somehow I doubt that.
The point is that the list has a built in bias, it's moving toward requiring faction approval to fly a ship, so it is biased toward the factions.

Isn't it better not to appear biased?

To limitn all Independents flies in the face of this server, frankly as far as I'm concerned, limiting any indepndents flys in the face of this server.

Somehow I'm not really getting that from you, that anarchy for indies vibe.

And anyway, indies should have the same limitations and abilities that faction members do, no more, no less. That's fair.

I disgree with the act of blowing up independnts on the basis that they do not conform to a factions RP, this is why the Liberty Rogues do not do it.

Yet it is server policy, Korrd supports it. I disagree with it as well, this idea that oorp pvp whoring is a good tool for factions to use against indies, and that
pvp should be used as punishment, but we are in the minority and it is the factions that push this, not the indies.

I first started playing online on some pvp server, eagle haven or heaven or something like that, and I died so much that it still doesn't bother me to die years later,
but the difference between that pvp server and this rp server is that there pvp was never a punishment, it was always in the spirit of pvp. Everyone said "gf"
afterward and often the guy who killed you gave you some tips for next time. It would be nice to have that here, but it would have to start with the factions,
and I'm not holding out much hope.

The sanctions are voted on by every active admin, which is how most mistakes are prevented. It is not a tool for revenge nor should it be used as such.

It is a revenge tool, it is used as such far more than it is used for anything else, and as near as I can tell it is one admin making the sanction, not a panel.

Also the players input isn't sought before a sanction is pronounced, and once pronounced it is nearly always upheld, if not always upheld regardless of the facts
that come out.

The power is a fallacy anyway, as these admins and faction leaders only have power whilst those under them choose to continue playing. If the playing stops the
power evaporates. Any Admin or faction leader knows this and thusly the iron fist approach is incredibly rare and only used by the most extreme. Yes I do consider
Eppy to be extreme. But then he knows this.

If it could be fixed without removing the freedoms of those it would affect I would be all for it, but it would cripple some folks, and that is unacceptable. This is a
viable alternative.

You are talking long term, most people only react in the short term. This server will die, if it's a year or ten years it will happen, and knowing that some types of
personalities prefer to use the iron fist while they can, knowing they may never be able to bully this way again in their lives.


Actually there is no issue in grandfathering in one or two people, or making them or assigning them a special ID (which I think has been done in the past).

Also, if these are exceptional people they can RP within stricter ship/ID rules as well as outside of them also, right?

Given the huge improvement a black and white list would have for the average player on the server's experience over the present arbitrary and basically bias
prone system has, I think a black and white list makes a lot more sense, just as most of the rules restrict RP in some way but they make the server better overall,
putting concrete rules in for what ships can be flown with what ID will serve the server better.

[timmychen]

Quick question..

Is this the longest Akumabito thread yet? I dunno, I just thought it'd be cool to keep track of it.

[RmJ]

You know...I do exist.... ignored but alive

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[Etaphreven]

[RmJ]

Hmm not failure....EPIC FAIL maybe....Hello everyone lets ignore my rational ...and be overlooked by other members...because my RP guy is dead

:(....Im telling mom!

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[Eppy]

The truth is that nobody actually wants to discuss the issue at hand; we're all just so sick and tired of Akumabito's BS that we're letting him have it without remorse and/or restraint; it isn't really accomplishing anything but passing the time, but it's fun, I suppose; eventually he'll get tired of it and go away and we can go back to doing remotely productive things.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[RmJ]

SO it's pointless for me to discuss the process of learning vs getting flamed....

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[Akumabito]

Try it and see.

[SirFish]

You guys who aren't adding anything to the discussion are being punks. Plain and simple. Did you notice that when Del posted a well-thought out post, that Akumabito posted likewise?

The arguments presented both side have merit. I think it's a great idea to have a list to help players see which choices are available to them. Similarly, however, this list needs to not impede role-play and at the same time be unambiguous. This list seems to be doing that fairly well.