Negative consequences of moving best premium scrap selling points to Gallia

[Laura C.]

Why would any smugglers want to interact with police? Isn't smuggling about delivering illegal cargo, possibly avoiding lawfuls in the process because those can be expected to try and intercept illegal cargo, thus bad for business?

Oh, wait, I know. Because of the playerbase shrinking bit by bit we are looking for more ways to force interactions in order to keep up the same amount and with that the same amount of enjoyment, slowly giving less and less crap about whether it makes sense inRP or not, totally ignoring that perhaps that may also be an important factor in the enjoyment of certain people.

Yeah, good luck fitting an activity all about avoiding contact with lawfuls in a scheme like this. When do we want to force pirates letting traders go in order not to discourage people from trading with bad experiences? How far do we really want to go at this?

There were always two types of smugglers and two concepts which both have their merrits but are in eternal conflict. Good noninteractive smuggler vs. bad interactive smuggler.

First one will hardly be caught, because he does what smuggler inRP should - do everything to not be caught. He fly away from lanes and gates above/under plane and such. So only places where he risk being caught is destination of his cargo and maybe jumpholes (but those are safe too if cops don´t metagame and don´t sit there). This smuggler is perfect in his RP role, but creates minimum interaction and fun for others.

Second one is bad smuggler, he uses lanes and gates and gives cops chance to catch him. It doesn´t fit smuggler RP role, but he creates interation for lawfuls (and others generally), provides fun of chase thrill and such.

There is no right answer which role is good and which is bad. Just personal opinions.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Thyrzul]

And then here I am, occasionally hauling cardamine from Alpha to Berlin, not using lanes but stricktly keeping my track on plane, from hole to hole (except in Frankfurt where I have to fly around a bit because mines around Schatten or whatever it's name is). Sounds like a middle ground, though not sure, what do you think?

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[Laura C.]

If you want to take the hard route then only demand the amount your ship can carry but it is no sillier than a pirate asking for only a quarter of a traders cargo, it is for the sake of fairness and something we have already accepted, being lawful or unlawful should not diminish that fact. Nor am I suggesting you let every single smuggler pass through, as I said reward the good RP'ers and explain what the lacking ones did wrong, what that entails is entirely up to you.

The bottom line is you cannot expect to play the constant arm of the law, ruthlessly stopping all smuggling and then turn around wondering why all your activity has dried up, putting another route down won't fix much, you only need to see the lack of traders and pirates to know that credit earning isn't always the best incentive.

There is crucial difference - pirate´s goal is to rob as many cargo as possible so he can sell it and earn credits. Cop´s/lawful´s goal is to destroy the contraband (unless it´s human contraband like slaves).

Also, this concept goes against RP really hard. I can imagine conversation with friend which I´m trying to introduce to Disco...

Me: So this is roleplay server, you pretend you are some character and act like he would in such situation. In our case, you are cop and enforce laws. Now if you meet smuggler, you stop him and you can confiscate quarter of his cargo (in harder mode, only what you can carry). Then you will let him go with the rest without fine. Applies every time, okay?

Friend: Uh, what? Real cop would never do that, why would he act like this?

Me: Because cops must be nice to smugglers.

Friend: But you said I play role of cop, and this has nothing to do with how cops work. They are not nice to smugglers and they definitely don´t let them go with contraband.

Me: Yes, but you know, we actually roleplay only to certain limit, you have to be nice to smuggler players.

Friend: This really doesn´t sound like RP server. Are you sure you know what RP is?

About the other matter (police-smuggler relations): It's like pirate vs trader games, predator vs prey in general, just lawfulness roles switched. I'm more than with Laura on this one, if I'd were to RP a stern, incorruptible police officer, unlike her I wouldn't let people go, because in my view incorruptible police roleplay not only doesn't consists that, but goes straight against that. And smugglers need to get used to the fact that the chance of getting caught and being shot at by lawfuls is also part of their roleplay, as well as that they may also encounter an incorruptible officer, in which case they better have bigger guns, thicker hull or quicker engines than just another excuse of a story in their pockets.[/color][/align]

Carsten is still just human being and there are ways how to convince her to look other way. Though definitely not by money and definitely not for some types of cargo. But I would feel bad if I would refuse excellent RP in certain situations just because "I´m stern cop which has no mercy and gives no chances". It makes sense for me inRP that you can do this when you are alone in space and no witnesses are around (yes, it is risky, but she is now in position to be able to cover her back in case of possible problem). But mainly as a player, I don´t want to say to other player "man, your plan and story was best I ever heard, but I can´t let you go because I´m stern cop". Yes, I am RPer, but I have point where I switch to "this was great fun, I will not spoil it by being hardcore RPer when I can play along and make this remembering encounter".

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Croft]

Why would any smugglers want to interact with police? Isn't smuggling about delivering illegal cargo, possibly avoiding lawfuls in the process because those can be expected to try and intercept illegal cargo, thus bad for business?

Oh, wait, I know. Because of the playerbase shrinking bit by bit we are looking for more ways to force interactions in order to keep up the same amount and with that the same amount of enjoyment, slowly giving less and less crap about whether it makes sense inRP or not, totally ignoring that perhaps that may also be an important factor in the enjoyment of certain people.

Yeah, good luck fitting an activity all about avoiding contact with lawfuls in a scheme like this. When do we want to force pirates letting traders go in order not to discourage people from trading with bad experiences? How far do we really want to go at this?

There is no defined way of smuggling, just the modus operandi to move illegal cargo, how you do it is up to you and influenced by how others treat you, see below.

If you want to take the hard route then only demand the amount your ship can carry but it is no sillier than a pirate asking for only a quarter of a traders cargo, it is for the sake of fairness and something we have already accepted, being lawful or unlawful should not diminish that fact. Nor am I suggesting you let every single smuggler pass through, as I said reward the good RP'ers and explain what the lacking ones did wrong, what that entails is entirely up to you.

The bottom line is you cannot expect to play the constant arm of the law, ruthlessly stopping all smuggling and then turn around wondering why all your activity has dried up, putting another route down won't fix much, you only need to see the lack of traders and pirates to know that credit earning isn't always the best incentive.

There is crucial difference - pirate´s goal is to rob as many cargo as possible so he can sell it and earn credits. Cop´s/lawful´s goal is to destroy the contraband (unless it´s human contraband like slaves).

Also, this concept goes against RP really hard. I can imagine conversation with friend which I´m trying to introduce to Disco...

Me: So this is roleplay server, you pretend you are some character and act like he would in such situation. In our case, you are cop and enforce laws. Now if you meet smuggler, you stop him and you can confiscate quarter of his cargo (in harder mode, only what you can carry). Then you will let him go with the rest without fine. Applies every time, okay?

Friend: Uh, what? Real cop would never do that, why would he act like this?

Me: Because cops must be nice to smugglers.

Friend: But you said I play role of cop, and this has nothing to do with how cops work. They are not nice to smugglers and they definitely don´t let them go with contraband.

Me: Yes, but you know, we actually roleplay only to certain limit, you have to be nice to smuggler players.

Friend: This really doesn´t sound like RP server. Are you sure you know what RP is?

Now explain to your friend why his smuggler character must be never seen, never caught and only ever talk to the seldom few unlawfuls who hang around their bases. Tell them if they are ever caught be the police all the cargo must be removed and a fine given. Show me the other side of the fence.

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Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack

[Thyrzul]

There is no defined way of smuggling, just the modus operandi to move illegal cargo, how you do it is up to you and influenced by how others treat you, see below.

You can't just ignore the fact you have way better chances at success if you avoid those who want to hold you back.

EDIT: Yes, there is the defined way of smuggling: you haul contraband from A to B without getting caught by the police. Why the "don't get caught" part? Because flying into a bunch of policement with contraband in your hold is not smuggling, it's called masochism.

Now explain to your friend why his smuggler character must be never seen, never caught and only ever talk to the seldom few unlawfuls who hang around their bases. Tell them if they are ever caught be the police all the cargo must be removed and a fine given. Show me the other side of the fence.

"So this is roleplay server, you pretend you are some character and act like he would in such situation. In our case, you are a smuggler hauling illegal cargo. Police don't like illegal cargo and will do everything to make you stop. You better not let them catch you." Does that suffice?

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[The Savage]

Yeah, good luck fitting an activity all about avoiding contact with lawfuls in a scheme like this. When do we want to force pirates letting traders go in order not to discourage people from trading with bad experiences? How far do we really want to go at this?

There's a certain difference between law officers and pirates: Pirates don't ask for cargo AND money.

[Thyrzul]

Wow, sorry for missing important details.

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[Lythrilux]

Someone brought up a good point to me on Skype:
Smugglers have 150% profit/distance ratio in comparison to regular commodities, which covers the occasional run-in with police. So it is essentially higher risk for higher reward. Plus, no one stops pirates to extort smugglers.

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[Croft]

@Thyrzul
Now explain why this singular role must avoid everyone on a mod designed around people meeting, explain why being a non-participent on an RP server is considered "Good RP" and for extra points, do so without comparing reality to Disco.

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Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack

[Lythrilux]

the guy said something else:
Both traders and smugglers are avoiding the parties who can cause harm to them. We see traders drop off lane/fly off plane/log off when seeing/knowing/expecting pirate. Same for smugglers who we see doing the same things, including landing on station even if ordered not to by law enforces. There are no sides that are 100% good, nor 100% bad. There are always individuals who can ruin the image of one of the sides, as well as individuals who can make the day with pleasant encounter, whether it is an extortion, a chase or a conversation. Once we stop pointing fingers to the other side and do all in our power to perform our best without raising expectations for completely random people across the internet, we can discuss how to improve our lovely mod.

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