Negative consequences of moving best premium scrap selling points to Gallia

[nOmnomnOm]

Also Nom, I'm not quite sure if it is still the case but apparently anyone can submit a screenshot of a smugglers cargo to generate a fine. If its true, it speaks absolute volumnes.

Yep.... all you need is a screen in game and not even RP in game to get money.
pretty lame as hell.

Literally no point if all that happens is you loose every single freaking time.

What's the point of a chase even if you wont win becasue the other guy has evidence?

I mean... even if you KILL the guy they still will post it anyway. Or even send it to a cop to post it on behalf of them. It's all been done before.

[Croft]

Everyone loves a fair and balanced system.

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Jimmy The Rat | Croft's Feedback | The Rat Pack

[Laura C.]

Well, this thread turned into discussion about smuggling, but why not, it´s useful for me actually. To shortly react to the smuggling issues which were brought up:

From now on I will speak only for Rheinland and RFP, obviously the attitude differ through houses much more than I thought. Though, majority of problematic cases which were brought are somehow from Liberty. I start to feel there is need to stress that you should not apply bad experience from one house to all of them.

you forget the part when even if the smuggler wins he has to deal with a fine sent to them on forums anyway. You cannot win if you encounter a cop. Only if you convince inRP

True, will give it a thought.

Edit: You can also loose twice as a smuggler. Death in-game and also forum fines.

I think RFP never did that, but I´m not 100 percent sure to be honest (definitely not againt individuals, not sure about factions). But I agree it is wrong.

My wish is basically that cop factions would not link 1 person to the whole of the faction in terms of smuggling. I don't really mind if one ship from the {AFC}- gets an FR5 for it if that needs to happen. It could suck, yes... but still I'd let it go.

FR5 should be very last resort for special cases imo. Not something common. It discourages player to fly into the house, when the "criminal status" can be solved by just putting the person to criminal database, what means all the NPC won´t fire at him all the time, but he gets in trouble when meeting players.

This also comes into play when I get messages to the faction for a guy's smuggling screw-up. How inRP is the faction headquarters responsible for the guy's actions? The club is grown adults. Not baby-sitters. Even when I state otherwise it's basically "Nope you should have not picked him and been more careful when recruiting" As if to tell me via oorp that with RP comms.
(...)
My issue is about SUSTAINABILITY
How long I can do these naughty actions with cops until the faction gets stabbed in the back becasue "RP Consequences" crap?
How far can I take it until it turns on me?

I guess there should be some balance. If some ship is caught here and there from time to time, maybe it could be doable. But if police catch ten differenct ships of same organization doing smuggling on thirty occassions per week, it doesn´t make much sense to treat that organization as law abiding and pretend there is nothing wrong with it. Will give it a thought.

So the wish is:
Not have FR5ing for whole factions for instances pertaining to individuals in the group.

I hope you know RFP doesn´t do that. Maybe I sound really threatening in my RP messages (that´s how it should be, right? ), but you know I stressed you last time that I didn´t even think about FR5 for AFC.

Not have huge fines that don't make sense compared to the situation.

Hard to say without knowing how you define huge fine. Especially when you run faction with closed economy, so different what is huge fine for you and some powersmuggler can be quite big. But if you mean fines for very small amounts like few units, I work on change of Rheinland laws which should be more friendly in such cases than the current one.

Not have comms directed to headquaters insisting it's the leader's fault becasue he has to baby-sit adults inRP and keep track of everyone. (well you can do it inRP but... just annoying as)

Like I said above, it is matter of amount. It´s part of quasi-lawful factions´ RP to do illegal stuff, but if you will be seen doing it three times a day, it wouldn´t make much sense to not outlaw you. But like I said, will give it more thought to see if I can find some balanced system to give it a go without completely dropping reasonable RP.

On the last note: when I was creating the faction I was told by a few people that I should go to each offical cop faction leader and discuss this issue. Some agreed and just wanted a bribe so inRP it makes sense and we could have some fun. Others said 3 strikes and you are out...

I guess that was before I became leader? I don´t remember two of us having this talk, nor chosing any of those two mentioned options.

Also Nom, I'm not quite sure if it is still the case but apparently anyone can submit a screenshot of a smugglers cargo to generate a fine. If its true, it speaks absolute volumnes.

Yep.... all you need is a screen in game and not even RP in game to get money.
pretty lame as hell.

I´m trying to came with reasonable solution about this. Got some idea two days ago, now I examine it and work on it. Stay tuned.

What's the point of a chase even if you wont win becasue the other guy has evidence?

I mean... even if you KILL the guy they still will post it anyway. Or even send it to a cop to post it on behalf of them. It's all been done before.

Another two issues I´m giving thought currently.

Hm, I wanted to react shortly. Oh well... Also, after reading my post, it si entertaining to realize that police faction leader is putting so much work to make Rheinland smuggling friendly house

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[nOmnomnOm]

FR5 should be very last resort for special cases imo. Not something common. It discourages player to fly into the house, when the "criminal status" can be solved by just putting the person to criminal database, what means all the NPC won´t fire at him all the time, but he gets in trouble when meeting players.

Yeah I like this. Also gives some lee-way to redeem yourself?

I guess there should be some balance. If some ship is caught here and there from time to time, maybe it could be doable. But if police catch ten differenct ships of same organization doing smuggling on thirty occassions per week, it doesn´t make much sense to treat that organization as law abiding and pretend there is nothing wrong with it. Will give it a thought.

Is it possible to differentiate minor offenses from major offenses? A civilian in RL can have a lot of fines for parking and such, Sure there are demerit points but there is also a redeeming system.
How about if it is a minor offense or if they guy goes to the criminal database he could do some time or community service to get rid of it. Ofc not permanent since criminal record.

I hope you know RFP doesn´t do that. Maybe I sound really threatening in my RP messages (that´s how it should be, right? ), but you know I stressed you last time that I didn´t even think about FR5 for AFC.

np all part of the game and RP

Hard to say without knowing how you define huge fine. Especially when you run faction with closed economy, so different what is huge fine for you and some powersmuggler can be quite big. But if you mean fines for very small amounts like few units, I work on change of Rheinland laws which should be more friendly in such cases than the current one.

huge as in dis-proportional to the crime committed
ofc if it is a multiple offence then i get it too. The closed economy feature you dont really need to worry about when you give fines... it is the proportion.

Like I said above, it is matter of amount. It´s part of quasi-lawful factions´ RP to do illegal stuff, but if you will be seen doing it three times a day, it wouldn´t make much sense to not outlaw you. But like I said, will give it more thought to see if I can find some balanced system to give it a go without completely dropping reasonable RP.

you were also saying that it takes a cop a lot of time to wait for a smuggler...
so you are asking for an increase in smuggling....
but if you ask for that and then now say that 3 times a day will lead to bad results then why would smugglers want to be caught more often.
All im saying is... in order to sustain the activity there shouldn't be outlawing of a whole group...

But to make things balanced on your end since i DO understand where you are coming from: How about some arrest/jail RP or Community Service.

It wouldnt be against AFC lore for instance to have members do some time. Could even be fun if done right!

I guess that was before I became leader? I don´t remember two of us having this talk, nor chosing any of those two mentioned options.

I think so, yeah. might have been. Also the LPI leadership changed as well. After that there was a decrease in AFC-Cop shenanigans.

Another two issues I´m giving thought currently.

Hm, I wanted to react shortly. Oh well... Also, after reading my post, it si entertaining to realize that police faction leader is putting so much work to make Rheinland smuggling friendly house

It's not so much having a smuggler friendly house
It's about ... well... not running out of smugglers to catch . Let's put it that way
The current system is for nabbing smugglers and laying down the law on them, making sure they after a while don't do it again.
This doesnt work imo in the long run...

Having said that. Yes... i understand FR5ing in Rhineland is the major last resort thing... but still.

i do like the criminal database thing though. Could you tell me more about how this works.
Is it a red-on-sight system? Can you get off the list when you get on but still keep a criminal record?

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[Jack_Henderson]

I haven't been following this closely over the last few pages, but I have a question: Who is the dev to talk to about this?
I mean, let's face it: Only very few forum threads about changes have ever resulted in actual change.

So: Who to address directly with it?

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[jammi]

Proposals that would explicitly fix this issue alongside all of the other ore imbalances were submitted pre-packaged, through the correct channels and in the relevant format for implementation all the way back in August. Result? No communication and no action.

I don't really hold out much hope for doing things the right way achieving anything either. That said, someone is actually working on mining now, after Vipex stepped up to the mining dev role. So maybe we'll see some kind of change in the near future.

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News article library, feedback and content requests.

[The Savage]

What about using /dice command for smugglers/illegal cargo bearers? That would be pretty neat for Lawful ID to let fate decide if scan failed or succeeded.

[Thyrzul]

Nom, I've been thinking about what you said about AFC, about what your faction does in general, and I've been wondering what exactly makes you a quasi-lawful faction. I mean, all I've seen in this thread about it is that it mocks police and smuggles in general, preferrably under their noses, and I was like it can't be just that, that wouldn't make a faction quasi-lawful, but unlawful. So I checked AFC's info page and all I've found is that besides neutral acitvities like racing and ganging together you really don't do much than mock police and smuggle. The lore of the faction even suggests that doing unlawful things are encouraged within the faction, just like how the 1%ers are respected more than the others for doing the dirty jobs.

And here in this thread I see you asking lawfuls to be more smuggler-friendly. Let me ask you, what does your faction do to retain their quasi-lawful image in the eyes of lawful authorities and keep those treating them as mere unlawfuls? What did AFC do so far (inRP) to make lawfuls think twice before outlawing them for like smuggling?

(That the factions operates as a gang, a bunch of friends taking care of eachother as long as there is no trouble, at which point it suddenly turns into just a group of adults, all only responsible for their own actions, is another thing I found funny.)

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[Hidamari]

well they escort legit traders like myself.

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[jammi]

Hell's Chaperones.