Bomber balance

[mjolnir]

FYI

Havoc turning 1.05

Falcata turning 1.025

Thor turning 1.0125

Taidan 0.975

You can't increase the turning on Thor because it would outturn a few fighters...

And no Falcata can't stay really close to a capship that knows how to aim. For example when fighting Airage in his RH BS I couldn't come closer than 1k without getting hit. In the same way I can't stay next to a good cruiser aimer in the Havoc.

Sorry Blodo but only thing that the Thor needs is a bigger powerplant as it already is getting a 10% size reduction.


EDIT: There are some anti-fighter bomber loadout that can make them very difficult to take down, an example would be 4 Coladas, sunslayer/Nova torp/mini razor, CD + Mine against a vanilla fighter. Or dual mini razors on a catamaran, or Inferno + missiles + cd + mine on catamaran. These I would consider "dirty" but they are possible to use and that's why bombers can't be more agile/smaller than the fastest ones already are. If they were to be made faster they would have to loose at least 2 guns slots.... yet they could still Mini Razor spam everything... so no thank you.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Blodo]

I'm not saying all bombers, I am specifically stating the big bombers. I still say turn rate decrease, dodging increase. At the very least. I doubt the 10% size reduction will help the Thor much when it still can't dodge incoming fire. If it's big at the very least make it dodge good.

[mjolnir]

How should fighters counter then whem they dodge better?

Try flying a fighter defending a capship from the Rhienland bomber (turning 0.91 and good dodging), it is very difficult, much more difficult than from a Havoc with faster turning and worse dodging.

It will make them worse 1vs1 against fighters maybe... but impossible to defend capships against them.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Blodo]

Yes, but I'm not campaigning for all bombers to get that increase, some of them are fine.. You don't have any stories like that with the Thor, and that is for a good reason. I really want to see the Barghest and Thor useful, right now I don't know a single person besides you that can say that the Thor is any good. It needs more than just a powerplant buff, and that's a fact.

[sovereign]

I'm agreeing with Blodo. That thing is huge, making it smaller will help a lot. Its strafing is also next to useless, it seems like my Firefly strafes better than it...

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[mjolnir]

Havoc has basically the same strafing and only 4 guns, same with Falcata, both have the weaker powerplant as well.
I'm not saying it's great, I'm just saying that small changes sometimes do wonders. Like on the Chimaera from 4.83 to 4.84.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Rabid_American]

Now what I propose is that all bigger bombers be actually made smaller and/or with a higher strafe speed

I did kinda wish the strafe speed on a bomber was faster...

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[Zeltak]

I think what Blodos is trying to say from the beginning of the thread, is that larger bombers should be useful, thats the main issue, they aren't, not at all. Thats why no one flies them and thats why no one buys them (Sure, special cases might involve, but i'm talking from a general view).

Now on the Thor issue, its dodging abilities should be increased and I do understand your concern Mjolnir. Because they must be worse than Rheinland vessels as the Hessian ships are "defected" , so its in roleplay for them to be a little less good, but that dosen't mean they should be utterly useless. Still the funny thing is, both the Falcata and the Rheinland Bomber has more armor than the Thor, yet they are twice as agile, now that is not balanced at all.

Personally, make the Thor useful, make it something we can fly and use, but don't make it better stat wise than the Rheinland ones especially. (Roleplay reasons).

Please continue now to discuss this until we all starve to death, because no one here seems to come to an agreement... Compromise, make both sides happy.

// Vincent

[bluntpencil2001]

I don't see why Thors need to be worse than RM bombers. If the Hessians have Sabers in vanilla, this actually means that they have better fighters than the RM, who have Valkyries.

Of course, that wouldn't be fair... so aiming for a fair balance would be better.

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[Zeltak]

I don't see why Thors need to be worse than RM bombers. If the Hessians have Sabers in vanilla, this actually means that they have better fighters than the RM, who have Valkyries.

Of course, that wouldn't be fair... so aiming for a fair balance would be better.

Never really thought of that way. Hopefully a balance will occur.