' Wrote:This is really starting to piss me off. Today I encountered three smugglers moving through omicron minor / omicron 100, hauling cardamine for the outcasts, and none of them were hostile to npc's in O-100.
Listen guys... I know it's an easy power-trading route for you, but it needs to stop. If you're going to pass through an order -guard- system as a clearly hostile faction member, you need to at the very least be hostile to the NPC's there.
I'm tired of spending what little game-time I have trying to chase down smugglers and traders using our guard system as a highway when you shouldnt be there in the first place - it's out of your zone of influence, and -nobody- should be going into any guard system without approval from the faction in control of it - and I can guarantee you that no black squadron member will approve cardamine smugglers moving through the system.
First ... you assume they are allied with Outcast and enemies of Corsairs/Order. Smugglers come from all walks of life. And a Smuggler ID is purchase at Junker bases. Last I checked ... Junkers are neutral to both Outcast and Corsairs ... and can move artifacts and/or cardamine with no issues. Additionally ... Smugglers do not necessarily belong to a specific faction. Many times they are not affiliated with anyone but themselves.
Second ... while you are correct with regards to control over your guard system ... no rule requires someone from entering a guard system owned by a faction. Its your job to secure your system.
One thing I'm getting tired of is people trying to use rules to enforce things that role play should take care of. Those traders who are "friendly" enough to Junkers, Blood Dragons and Golden C's (ie: pirates and terrorists) move Diamonds and Niobium between Rheinland and Kusari. By the way ... GMG are kinda enemies with Rheinland ... so GMG don't care much for any trade going through Sigmas 13 or 19 from Rheinland. But that doesn't stop the traders. This is one reason I've chosen to call Sigma 13 home to the Black Pearl ... to "quasi-enforce" some role play by forcing the traders to find another route.
it doesnt matter if they're junkers or outcasts, nobody should be fixing their rep so they can get through a guard system - especially the order guard system - unhassled.
The order doesnt care what faction you're a part of, we're not going to let you stroll through our most heavily defended system where all of our research and ship construction is conducted. Unless you're a zoner, order, or corsair, you should be hostile to the npc's in Omicron 100 - and the zoners/corsairs who want to take a trip there need to have a good reason to do so.
Um ... there are MANY factions that are in the neutral category here. Just because you're not Zoner, Order or Corsair, doesn't mean you get fired upon.
Order are enemies with bounty hunters and Liberty. They're PRIMARY role in Sirius is to keep the Nomads in check. And the Order is allied with Corsairs for purely political and economic reasons. Corsairs help them with resources.
Traders and Smugglers ... you're gonna have to deal with them. There's no rule that says they cannot be there. Closest thing is Rule 4.3 ... but this rule states that you can "tax" anyone who enters your home system." And if you read the last statement of 4.3 ... it says, "Access to systems that surround home system must not be restricted unless there's a war with another faction." So you cannot restrict Omicron Minor even if you could restrict Omicron 100.
you're missing the point. You're trying to treat omicron 100, alaska, and the other guard systems like any other run-of-the-mill system... they arent. These systems, particularly 100/alaska, are top-secret heavily guarded areas, belonging to the two most advanced (human) factions in sirius.
It doesnt matter if you consider yourself 'nuetral' - you cant just stroll through area 51 as a civilian and expect not to get shot, especially if you're lugging along a couple hundred pounds of heroine and cocaine.
Regardless, anyone that I see in omicron 100 will be given no more than 1 warning, circumstantially. If you're a corsair/zoner, you'll be asked to explain yourself, and if no reasonable explanation for your presence in the system is given, you'll be ordered to leave - if you refuse to leave, you'll be fired upon whether you're an ally or not.
Anyone who is not a zoner or corsair will be destroyed if they dont comply with that single warning. If you're a well-known smuggler who has been in the system before, I wont bother with the warning at all, you just get dead, fast.
I'm not backing down on that stance, I'm tired of people thinking they can use our space as a shortcut without any RP reasons for being there. You show up, you die, simple as that.
EDIT:
And to be clear, I'm not that concerned with people passing through omicron minor. It links to delta (and subsequently theta/kappa/gamma) and a lot of people setting up characters need to go that route. As long as you stay away from toledo, the isis, and the omicron 100 jump hole I dont care about people in o-minor.
' Wrote:you're missing the point. You're trying to treat omicron 100, alaska, and the other guard systems like any other run-of-the-mill system... they arent. These systems, particularly 100/alaska, are top-secret heavily guarded areas, belonging to the two most advanced (human) factions in sirius. <-- Alaska is not a guard system. And Chugoku is kinda top secret (to include the jump holes in and out of it. And the Sigma 13 / New Berlin jump hole is also top secret ... but this is the busiest route on Disco. And if what you claim is true ... then all those bounty hunters and other lawfuls need to keep clear of Vespucci, Puerto Rico, Cassini, etc etc etc. Omicron 100 is not more unique than these.
It doesnt matter if you consider yourself 'nuetral' - you cant just stroll through area 51 as a civilian and expect not to get shot, especially if you're lugging along a couple hundred pounds of heroine and cocaine. <-- True ... but drugs aren't what draw people to Area 51 ... its the aliens and their "artifacts." And guess what ... Area 51 is ALWAYS being violated. People get arrested all the time trying to get a peek. So just because its a super duper secret area ... doesn't mean people won't flock to it.
Regardless, anyone that I see in omicron 100 will be given no more than 1 warning, circumstantially. If you're a corsair/zoner, you'll be asked to explain yourself, and if no reasonable explanation for your presence in the system is given, you'll be ordered to leave - if you refuse to leave, you'll be fired upon whether you're an ally or not. <-- Perfectly fine ... the control over your home system is your responsibility. If you cannot maintain its security, why do you own it? But let me say this ... the purpose of system ownership is not so you can have a system all to yourself. Disco is a community and is not owned by 5 or so individuals who call themselves a faction so they can have a private place. If that's the case ... let me buy my own personal system that only I can enter. You need to control your system through role play ... not rule play.
Anyone who is not a zoner or corsair will be destroyed if they dont comply with that single warning. If you're a well-known smuggler who has been in the system before, I wont bother with the warning at all, you just get dead, fast. <-- First ... good ... enforce your system's security. Second ... the only real commodity the Order would really care about passing through an Order system would be artifacts, alien organisms and Nomad ships/equipment. Your main enemy is the Nomads. Its kinda what you're there for. Remember, your alliance with Corsairs is for your resources and technology, not because you guys actually like each other. And you should remember your main purpose is to prevent the infestation that occurred in the story line from occurring again. So for role play ... artifacts smuggling would be more of a crime than cardamine.
I'm not backing down on that stance, I'm tired of people thinking they can use our space as a shortcut without any RP reasons for being there. You show up, you die, simple as that. <-- Good ... enforce your turf. Cut down on the smugglers. But don't expect "server" rules to enforce this.
EDIT:
And to be clear, I'm not that concerned with people passing through omicron minor. It links to delta (and subsequently theta/kappa/gamma) and a lot of people setting up characters need to go that route. (so throw role play out the window if someone is setting up a character?) As long as you stay away from toledo, the isis, and the omicron 100 jump hole I dont care about people in o-minor.
I dont have to worry about artifact smugglers in 100. They go between omicron delta and alaska, they never pass through our guard system. The cardamine smugglers DO, and so I consider them a larger threat than any of the players running artifacts through.
Alien organisms are not contraband, they're used for terraforming and are harmless to people. It's not something any lawful organization has to worry about. Nomad equipment and nomad brains -are- considered contraband by the order when carried by anyone who doesnt have reason to carry them.
EDIT:
And while you're correct that alaska isnt a guard system, liberty lawfuls in that system are well within their boundaries to openly fire on anyone passing through that space who isnt cleared to be there. Hell, they can blast anyone even approaching the minefield in new york just for looking too closely - guard system or not, they make the rules.
Likewise, the order makes the rules when it comes to omicron minor and omicron 100. If we dont want you there, or think you're a threat to our operations, you're dead.
' Wrote:I dont have to worry about artifact smugglers in 100. They go between omicron delta and alaska, they never pass through our guard system. The cardamine smugglers DO, and so I consider them a larger threat than any of the players running artifacts through. <-- Do you chase down artifact smugglers between Delta and Alaska? I'd expect you would.
Alien organisms are not contraband, they're used for terraforming and are harmless to people. It's not something any lawful organization has to worry about. Nomad equipment and nomad brains -are- considered contraband by the order when carried by anyone who doesnt have reason to carry them. <-- Contraband in role play is more complex than what the NPC's are "programmed" to respond to. For example ... I was carrying a load of engine components from planet Kyushu toward the Tau systems. Well ... along the way a member of the KNF scanned me and demanded I either drop them or return them to Kyushu due to a ban on exporting technology such as engine components from Kusari space. Another example ... we pirates don't like to see traders moving prisoners ... kinda contraband to an unlawful to see their friends and family being moved from prison to prison if you ask me. So yes ... alien organisms can be contraband. Kinda like light arms ... its not really the cargo that's contraband ... but the destination of that cargo.
EDIT:
And while you're correct that alaska isnt a guard system, liberty lawfuls in that system are well within their boundaries to openly fire on anyone passing through that space who isnt cleared to be there. Hell, they can blast anyone even approaching the minefield in new york just for looking too closely - guard system or not, they make the rules. <-- Yes they can ... but "technically" ... according to the "rules" ... you cannot restrict access to neighboring systems. And Alaska really is not neighboring any guard system anyway. Alaska's restriction is based on role play though. I have no problem with the way Liberty has handled access to Alaska because it is done for role play purposes ... to secure its border with an Order system. But Liberty factions is not getting upset and making a post that they're tired of people treking through Alaska. They deal with it in a role play manner. And they do the same with Virginia. Liberty factions show up in mass and demand the trespasser depart. Then they hunt him down if he doesn't leave ... all without using the forum.
Likewise, the order makes the rules when it comes to omicron minor and omicron 100. If we dont want you there, or think you're a threat to our operations, you're dead. <-- Good ... enforce it through role play. If it means you spend your daily online time defending your turf ... so be it. But don't make the "server admins" or the "server rules" enforce your system access so you can go on your merry way. If you don't have the time to defend what's yours ... it won't be yours for long.
By the way ... I've got Order and Corsair characters.
Quote:Do you chase down artifact smugglers between Delta and Alaska? I'd expect you would.
No, I dont. I'm not going to risk losing my faction's access to corsair shipyards and resources to stop one artifact smuggler. As far as I'm concerned, they're working for the corsairs, and thus indirectly working for us. I dont have to -like- what they're doing, but that doesnt mean I have to pay attention to it either. I turn a blind eye and consider it a necessary evil.
Quote: Contraband in role play is more complex than what the NPC's are "programmed" to respond to. For example ... I was carrying a load of engine components from planet Kyushu toward the Tau systems. Well ... along the way a member of the KNF scanned me and demanded I either drop them or return them to Kyushu due to a ban on exporting technology such as engine components from Kusari space. Another example ... we pirates don't like to see traders moving prisoners ... kinda contraband to an unlawful to see their friends and family being moved from prison to prison if you ask me. So yes ... alien organisms can be contraband. Kinda like light arms ... its not really the cargo that's contraband ... but the destination of that cargo.
I'm not going by NPC reactions to the cargo, i'm going by the cargo's infocard. Alien organisms, by their infocard, are stated as a bacterial lifeform that is used in the terraforming process. It says nothing about them being related to nomads, or being dangerous to human beings - therefor I dont consider them contraband, and most other player here dont either.
Quote: Yes they can ... but "technically" ... according to the "rules" ... you cannot restrict access to neighboring systems. An Alaska really is not neighboring any guard system anyway. Alaska's restriction is based on role play though. I have no problem with the way Liberty has handled access to Alaska because it is done for role play purposes ... to secure its border with an Order system. But Liberty factions is not getting upset and making a post that they're tired of people treking through Alaska. They deal with it in a role play manner. And they do the same with Virginia. Liberty factions show up in mass and demand the trespasser depart. Then they hunt him down if he doesn't leave ... all without using the forum.
Liberty doesnt restrict alaska/z21 because it borders order space, they restrict it because it's where all of their classified ships and technology are manufactured and tested. Likewise with omicron 100 - that's our version of alaska, it's where our research takes place and it's where we build our ships. We cant have some civilian burning through the system taking notes on the order's biggest secrets.
Quote: Good ... enforce it through role play. If it means you spend your daily online time defending your turf ... so be it. But don't make the "server admins" or the "server rules" enforce your system access so you can go on your merry way. If you don't have the time to defend what's yours ... it won't be yours for long.
That isnt what I'm trying to do.
The problem here is that the players - the smugglers in this case - are using game coding limitations to 'cheat' their way through the system. They smuggle in trains so that the guard npcs cant use cruise disruptors to stop them, or they tweak their rep so the guard npc's dont attack them at all. THAT is OoRP, and as such is sanctionable. My problem is with players actively and knowingly doing these things, then trying to cover it up with "lol, the npcs cant stop me"
' Wrote:No, I dont. I'm not going to risk losing my faction's access to corsair shipyards and resources to stop one artifact smuggler. As far as I'm concerned, they're working for the corsairs, and thus indirectly working for us. I dont have to -like- what they're doing, but that doesnt mean I have to pay attention to it either. I turn a blind eye and consider it a necessary evil. <-- So a trader or smuggler "works for" the factions they trade with? So an artifact smuggler works for both the Corsairs and Liberty? Pretty much all (or at least most) artifacts are destined to Manhattan. So by your logic, the smuggler works for both the Corsairs and Liberty ... ironic. Guess Liberty shouldn't be complaining much since Manhattan sells counterfeit software. My smuggler moving this counterfeit software would be working for Liberty right? After all ... Liberty DOES sell contraband. Manhattan buys all kinds of contraband and sells counterfeit software. And Houston sells slaves.
I'm not going by NPC reactions to the cargo, i'm going by the cargo's infocard. Alien organisms, by their infocard, are stated as a bacterial lifeform that is used in the terraforming process. It says nothing about them being related to nomads, or being dangerous to human beings - therefor I dont consider them contraband, and most other player here dont either. <-- And many factions / characters should go by what would logically be considered contraband. Why would a pirate be happy to see prisoners aboard a prison ship? Its like seeing slaves in a smuggler's ship. Alien organisms may be an exception based on the infocard.
Liberty doesnt restrict alaska/z21 because it borders order space, they restrict it because it's where all of their classified ships and technology are manufactured and tested. Likewise with omicron 100 - that's our version of alaska, it's where our research takes place and it's where we build our ships. We cant have some civilian burning through the system taking notes on the order's biggest secrets.
That isnt what I'm trying to do. <-- But Liberty DOES restrict access for role play reasons. AND ... Liberty physically patrols and engages vessels that approach Z21 and/or pass through Alaska.
The problem here is that the players - the smugglers in this case - are using game coding limitations to 'cheat' their way through the system. They smuggle in trains so that the guard npcs cant use cruise disruptors to stop them, or they tweak their rep so the guard npc's dont attack them at all. THAT is OoRP, and as such is sanctionable. My problem is with players actively and knowingly doing these things, then trying to cover it up with "lol, the npcs cant stop me" <-- So explain why traders are justified for the Diamond / Niobium route that passes through Sigma 13, Chugoku and Hokkaido. Is this cheating as well? They're all neutral with pirates and terrorists. Smugglers ... pay careful attention to what that word means ... are designed to ferry cargo "undetected" by authorities. Smugglers entire goal is to get cargo from point A to point B without being detected ... SO ... if they pass through undetected by you or even your NPCs ... the smuggler has done his job effectively. A smuggler's success is to make you ... the lawful guy ... think the cargo he's carrying is legal. Its YOUR job to scan him and verify the cargo is not contraband. If you're not there and your Order NPCs don't do their job (which they do scan and demand contraband is dropped) ... then you can only blame yourself.
Bottom line ... do your job ... don't rely on the admins or the rules do the job for you.
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