-keep out of omicron 100!-

[Baltar]

Shortcut to hell if you come to 100 when my cruiser is guarding.
NO WARNING'S!!! BOOM YOUR DEAD!:crazy:

And to those who i have blown to hell,and then ask "why you shoot me? i am neutral to order guard" To bad.You are in restricted space,KOS space, do not like it? do not come back.

Sure ryoken ... you do that ... kill a trader/smuggler without any warning and you'll likely get a violation report filed on you. The only ID's that permit attacks such as you describe are Terrorists. So if your Order vessels attack a trader/smuggler without warning you're acting like a terrorist. Oh ... terrorists and pirate are forbidding to engage traders/smugglers in anything larger than gunboats. So ... either role play with the trader/smuggler (ie: warning them to drop cargo, leave or whatever) ... if not ... you're looking at a report. Please take note of the following and please avoid PVP abuse:

6.6 PvP combat is allowed only on roleplay basis. The pilot who is attacking must scan for an ID prior to the attack. Relying on general reputation status (red/neutral/green) without scanning for the ID is not allowed.

Non-RP attacks are considered PvP abuse and are sanctioned accordingly.

Time zones can be hell for any kind of organization, but usually when I'm on and defending the system there's:
-Myself, in a zoner destroyer
-Nomad_killer in a zoner destroyer
-Bushido in a corsair cruiser
-Several Bs| and independent order pilots in fighters or bombers

And... you dont get into the system to begin with, we camp the omicron major jump hole if we see any kind of activity in omicron major, the second you come through you're under fire, and not even a battleship stands any chance against three cruisers.

Hmm ... so firing without scanning is your thing? Again I refer to the rule quoted above. Rule 6.6 states you must scan for the ID prior to the attack. Just because they come from Omicron Major does not exempt you from this rule. While Black Squadron owns Omicron 100 and can impose restrictions on it ... server rules are still enforced in Omicron 100. So ... please make sure you scan before you open fire ... have some form of role play (ie: say something because the guy entering Omicron 100 may not be familiar with Black Squadron) ... and don't act like terrorists. Only terrorists are allowed to indiscriminately attack other players.

[Heartless]

Actually, in guard systems, and systems owned by players, like Omi 100, I can kill a trader without warning and the trader can't do anything about it.

edit- but ofcourse I don't, I ask them to leave and if they don't I kill them, I don't care about how much money they have or what they're carrying.

edit 2- and yeah, killing on sight in 100 makes sence because the Order would want it's secrets kept away from public eyes and anyone who sees what we're up to can't be kept alive, too risky for us.

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SwissScorch --> Heartless

[Tenacity]

Sure ryoken ... you do that ... kill a trader/smuggler without any warning and you'll likely get a violation report filed on you. The only ID's that permit attacks such as you describe are Terrorists. So if your Order vessels attack a trader/smuggler without warning you're acting like a terrorist. Oh ... terrorists and pirate are forbidding to engage traders/smugglers in anything larger than gunboats. So ... either role play with the trader/smuggler (ie: warning them to drop cargo, leave or whatever) ... if not ... you're looking at a report. Please take note of the following and please avoid PVP abuse:

Hmm ... so firing without scanning is your thing? Again I refer to the rule quoted above. Rule 6.6 states you must scan for the ID prior to the attack. Just because they come from Omicron Major does not exempt you from this rule. While Black Squadron owns Omicron 100 and can impose restrictions on it ... server rules are still enforced in Omicron 100. So ... please make sure you scan before you open fire ... have some form of role play (ie: say something because the guy entering Omicron 100 may not be familiar with Black Squadron) ... and don't act like terrorists. Only terrorists are allowed to indiscriminately attack other players.

Standard pvp rules dont apply in guard systems. The owning faction (player or otherwise) is fully able to attack anyone and everyone in the system that they dont want there. I never said I dont scan for ID's, but it takes me all of two seconds to do so.

If you arent order, you dont belong there. 100 is a guard system, and we dont have to give you any warning. Generally we do, however - a single, short verbal warning to turn around and leave the system back the way you came, if you're new in that system. If you ignore that warning, or are a previously encountered smuggler/trader/whatever who has abused the system before, you get no such luxury.

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[Akumabito]

As I understand it, the ease of pvp rules for a guard system only applies to the faction that owns it and not any player with the ID of the system.

Also, if someone is in minor or major the rules wouldn't apply.

[Baltar]

Standard pvp rules dont apply in guard systems. The owning faction (player or otherwise) is fully able to attack anyone and everyone in the system that they dont want there. I never said I dont scan for ID's, but it takes me all of two seconds to do so.

If you arent order, you dont belong there. 100 is a guard system, and we dont have to give you any warning. Generally we do, however - a single, short verbal warning to turn around and leave the system back the way you came, if you're new in that system. If you ignore that warning, or are a previously encountered smuggler/trader/whatever who has abused the system before, you get no such luxury.

Try again Tenacity ... and read what I've quoted above. Server rules still must be followed. Faction rules add to the rules ... they do not replace them. And faction rules (established by the faction) are required for all faction members to follow ... even if you are flying your Bs| vessels outside Omicron 100.

Tenacity ... I thought you said you were not part of any faction. You are a strange bird.



Here's something else to examine. According to faction creation rules, the Order is required to have 8 active members. Funny thing is ... I've not seen more than 2 running around in the last couple months.

4.4 If a faction has only 1-4 active members, its status is changed to suspended. Suspended faction has 4 weeks to regain lost numbers, otherwise its existence comes to an end.

Now I know DBoy has a lot at stake here with regard to his faction. You guys might wanna make sure you understand Black Squadron ... that is ... if you are a part of his faction. If not ... you have no business "patrolling" Omicron 100 ... no more than the indies do in New York.

Here's the description of Black Squadron by the way:

Black Squadron are an elite wing of Order pilots working to destroy what's left of the Nomad race, and the Liberty house, with also control and power over the Order themselves being lead by Black Squadron's four Admirals. With their size and fighting abilities they gained access and full control of Omicron 100, which is used as their main base of operations. Currently Black Squadron's new objective is to rid of the new species of 'Nomads' flying through the Omicron sectors, and hold back the assaults of Liberty freeing their people from the corrupted government, along with studying Nomad technology.

According to this ... your only concern really is the Nomads and Liberty. If you want complete details you'll need to read their post here Black Squadron's Faction Status. And please take note as to your rank within Black Squadron (if you are a member). This will determine what ships you're allowed to fly. Are you allowed to fly a cruiser?

Also ... please pay very close attention to Black Squadron's deplomacy. I believe most of us (traders and smugglers included) would fall into the "Everyone Else" category of Neutral.

Now then ... how about the rules of Omicron 100. Read Omicron Minor and Omicron 100 rules.

Near the bottom ...

Vessels without authorization will have 30 seconds to comply with Black Squadron order to leave Omicron 100, or said pilots ship will either be forcibly removed and/or destroyed.

Sounds like 30 seconds is acceptable. Try telling me ... "you have 30 seconds to depart Omicron 100" ... doesn't mean I have to actually be out in 30 seconds ... but I gotta be on my way out and following your instructions.

From all this ... you cannot expect EVERY player/character on Disco to read EVERY word about Black Squadron in these posts. Black Squadron is not the ONLY faction on Disco. If you come across someone that's moving cargo there and is not familiar to Black Squadron ... try giving them a chance before becoming a PVP terrorist.

[Tenacity]

Baltar, your entire argument seems to be another "factions > Indies!!!" derailment.

Omicron 100 is a guard system, it has been stated in the past that pvp can be initiated without warning by ANY faction in ANY guard system, particularly by the faction that owns the system (and i'm not referring to Bs| here, but any order member).

that system houses all the secrets of the order's technology and ship production, there is absolutely no reason any order player should let a non order player into the system alive to snoop about, unless it's one of the more closely allied factions and that player has a very good reason for being there (ship purchases and whatnot, which isnt an issue right now because all the ships sold in 100 are also sold in minor).

So we do have RP reason for attacking you if you enter the system - you're there unauthorized, and you're likely trying to spy on our operations in the system. Both of those are fully acceptable reasons for blasting you out of existence.

It doesnt matter if you're a civilian, a nuetral, a fighter pilot, a capship pilot, a smuggler, or a trader. If you arent authorized by the order to be there, you die. I'm fairly certain the admins will agree with us on this point.


EDIT:

And by the way, my posts have nothing to do with black squadron - my order character is not within that player faction. As far as I'm aware, they have not 'bought' omicron 100 either, the system is left to -all- order pilots, independent or otherwise, to guard.

See, we arent like you liberty folk. Out in the 'real' factions, there is no discrimination against independents that show they know how to RP and fit in. Go on your indie-burning crusade if you want, but it bears no relevance whatsoever to this thread.

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[Baltar]

Baltar, your entire argument seems to be another "factions > Indies!!!" derailment. <-- Once again ... avoiding the issue at hand.

Omicron 100 is a guard system, it has been stated in the past that pvp can be initiated without warning by ANY faction in ANY guard system, particularly by the faction that owns the system (and i'm not referring to Bs| here, but any order member). <-- Do you have the link for such a quote? Is it a quote by an admin or just another of many discussions brought up by people with ideas of how they think the rules "ought to be?" Nice try ... but there is no such rule. Server rules are still in place ... even in guard systems. The ONLY PVP system on Disco is Connecticut.

that system houses all the secrets of the order's technology and ship production, there is absolutely no reason any order player should let a non order player into the system alive to snoop about, unless it's one of the more closely allied factions and that player has a very good reason for being there (ship purchases and whatnot, which isnt an issue right now because all the ships sold in 100 are also sold in minor). <-- You're loopholing a Black Squadron rule here. Please read further in Black Squadron's rules. Neutrals are to be warned to leave before being destroyed.

So we do have RP reason for attacking you if you enter the system - you're there unauthorized, and you're likely trying to spy on our operations in the system. Both of those are fully acceptable reasons for blasting you out of existence. <-- You still have to adhere to Black Squadron's rule regarding the 30 second warning. And you still have to adhere to server PVP/ID rules.

It doesnt matter if you're a civilian, a nuetral, a fighter pilot, a capship pilot, a smuggler, or a trader. If you arent authorized by the order to be there, you die. I'm fairly certain the admins will agree with us on this point. <-- Again ... Black Squadron's "own" rule states that a neutral will be given 30 seconds to comply. If not ... I refer you to rule 4.8. Please ... oh please ... read this rule. It speaks of faction members not following faction rules and placing the entire faction in jeopardy of a sanction. I'm sure DBoy would have something to say about that. But then ... I don't think you're a member of Black Squadron ... so you really have no authority in Omicron Minor or 100.

EDIT:

And by the way, my posts have nothing to do with black squadron - my order character is not within that player faction. As far as I'm aware, they have not 'bought' omicron 100 either, the system is left to -all- order pilots, independent or otherwise, to guard. <-- Black squadron "owns" Omicron 100. By default ... Black Squadron is included in this discussion ... like it or not. They OWN the system ... or have you not figured that out yet? And YES YES YES ... Black Squadron owns Omicron 100 ... READ THEIR FACTION STATUS PAGE. It cost them 1 billion credits to make this purchase ... and you're blasting about something that's NOT YOURS. Now stop posting and start reading ... because you're just exposing your ignorance here.EDIT: It cost them 600 million credits ... they've existed before the price was increased.

See, we arent like you liberty folk. Out in the 'real' factions, there is no discrimination against independents that show they know how to RP and fit in. Go on your indie-burning crusade if you want, but it bears no relevance whatsoever to this thread. <-- I'm only going by what Black Squadron has written in THEIR rules. And by what the server rules say. You seem to be on your own set of rules ... and are becoming quite annoying to those of us who are familiar with the factions of Disco.

[Tenacity]

regardless, you've seen black squadron members post here in support.

Their original faction draft stated a 30 second leeway, but that was before smugglers started using the route daily. Times change, and smugglers/traders moving through the guard system are more of a threat than they've ever been before.

I'm sorry, you're not going to change my mind about this, and I'm not breaking any server rules by opening fire on non-order players in the order guard system.

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[Heartless]

It's simple really.

Omicron 100 is owned by Bs|. We have our rules for that system, they are the rules, not standard server rules.
And the main rule is: if you aren't order id'd and tagged or an ally you're not welcome which means we kill you, simple as that, no discussion to it.

Factions that owned systems can make whatever rules they want.

And we have about 2 dozen members and alot new people joining alot, check our recruitment thread. Most of us are students and have finals these days so yeah, we have a life.

Honestly, Baltar, I'm not liking what you're doing here, there's no discusison to this, I know the facts and those are set in stone.
And please don't go saying stuff about Dboy, he's very busy both ingame and especially in real life as are we all and do not target Bs| as a faction, it won't get you anywhere, we are one of the oldest and most respected factions.

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SwissScorch --> Heartless

[Reverend Del]

Actually Guard system rules are the benefit of being an official system owning player faction, just because you have an Order ID does not make you a part of Black Squadron and thusly according to server rules, you -must- scan for ID, only Bs| members may enforce their rules according to rule 4.3 in their system. Same goes for any System owning faction.

None Bs| members spouting how they will kill anything that moves are basically looking to sanction themselves, you do not own that system you do not have any rights within that system.

4.3 Factions are free to restrict or not restrict access to their home systems and tax players who enter home system. Access to systems that surround home system must not be restricted unless there's a war with another faction.

This rule appears in section 4 of the rules Factions and in this context refers to player factions, not NPC factions, (all the rules within that section refer to player factions as well, so there's no reason to assume this one is any different.)

So in short if you start KOSing folks in Omi-100 without beign a member of Bs| you better be bloody careful who you're killing. It takes all of two seconds to scan for ID, stick to the rules and you won't get hurt.

Of course the standard Bs| rules do apply, so you can enforce them so long as you stick to the rules.

Other than that small infringement I see no problems with Tenacity asking folks to stop using Omi-100 as a highway, but please don't start spoutoing how it should be a sanctionable offense.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.