VHF balance

[mjolnir]

I'd suggest a slight boost to the Templar's agility, possibly in exchange elsewhere.

It is painfully bad against its KNF counterparts.

I don't know... I flew the Templar in a few fights and it's actually quite "agile".. meaning strafing + dodging. Much better than a Titan.
Turning is a bit slower yes.

But it's also much less vulnerable to explosives than Titan and it's not so easy target to hit, since as I said before most shots tend to hit the rear of the ship you are targeting and Templar is quite small there.

If it will get more agile it needs to loose something, so armor or powerplant....it will become less unique and boring imho.

I see addition of a Bretonian HF as a better solution against KNF ships.

Also it doesn't really fight KNF ships that often, mostly it fights Titans and Praetorians these days.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[AdamantineFist]

These changes sound rather good. I fly a Sabre, and the strafing is rather extreme. A slight nerf in that direction (mass of 100?) would be fair. Apart from that, I only fly a Wrath, Nephtys, and Manta. Those all seem fairly well rounded.

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[Unseelie]

I'd suggest a slight boost to the Templar's agility, possibly in exchange elsewhere.

It is painfully bad against its KNF counterparts.

I'm a crusader for more armour for the Titan(3 or 4 k) and the Templar(1 or 2 k), because that is their strength...we increase that, and they will last a good deal longer against their speed tanking counterparts, which allows them to land more hits, etc... The numbers are soo large because the benefit a bit of extra agility gives is much, much larger than the benefit of armour.

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[legeonation]

Quick question which version of the Virage is in game. It is the old one with the useless twin guns or the one with the new transparent cockpit without the twin guns. Hard Points provided by AoM and all of his modding goodness:)

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Legeonation Ship R&D Development

[mjolnir]

Quick question which version of the Virage is in game. It is the old one with the useless twin guns or the one with the new transparent cockpit without the twin guns. Hard Points provided by AoM and all of his modding goodness:)

Old one with twin guns.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

These changes sound rather good. I fly a Sabre, and the strafing is rather extreme. A slight nerf in that direction (mass of 100?) would be fair. Apart from that, I only fly a Wrath, Nephtys, and Manta. Those all seem fairly well rounded.

Well, what can I say?

From my experience, its improved strafing ability has a reason as Sabre is pretty big target. When I faced it, most of the shots I fired landed directly on its hull. Even some !!!bombers!!! are much harder to hit.

[Dab]

Wrath has just 4 lvl 10s, yet Werewolf could get 5 as it is definitelly nowhere near Wrath
Difference in agility between Chimaera and BD is actually quite big, the armor on Chimaera doesn't not help at all against explosives as you know.

BD with Daitos is balanced against Chimaera with anything on. Since the BD can hit the Chimaera more often but does less damage per hit. BD with Codenames or Krakens is not balanced against Chimaera.. and BD with inferno and Daitos is almost uber => if you know how to hit with inferno his shields will always be down, when they are you can "spray and pray" with daitos while he tries to dent your shield.

I for one think it should keep the agility to be different, but I can't see how lowering gun Class to 9 or 2x8 4x9 makes it useless. If you use the "normal" BD loadout which is now 2 Debilitators 4 Daitos you won't see any difference.

The Inferno + 8.33 refire weap thing has nothing to do with the BD. I could do that in a Sabre just the same.. Thats a weapon issue, not a ship issue. Also, Explosives hurt the BD as much as they hurt the Chimaera. Chimaera takes more explosives however. A single cannonball will kill a BD, but only almost kill a Chim. And a BD with Codenames or Krakens is equal to a Chimaera with Codenames or Krakens.. Again, a weapon issue, not a ship one. Also, 2 Debs and 4 Daitos are NOT the 'normal' loadout. Its the 'I want to win' loadout. You will NEVER see my Kiretsu, or any other Kiretsu with that loadout. We have a 1 (thats one) deb limit, and I tell people not to use Blood Dragon weaponry. We use Disinfectors and Suncannons, and then codenames on bombers. No Krakens, no Wyrms, no Daitos. As far as I know, the GC don't use Krakens either.. And anyone who DOES should stop doing so..

This is a ship comparison, not a weaponry one. OORP loadouts are no reason to nerf a ship. Heck, a Sabre with 2 Tizonas and 4 Krakens would be extremely unbalanced to.. That doesn't mean we should be nerfing the Sabre.

It was actually Terrance that suggested this FYI, not me.

Thats because he spent half the duel we had just trying to get me in his screen long enough to shoot.. And he probably uses that Deb + Daito loadout too, so it won't hurt him.. However, it WILL hurt everyone who uses RP loadouts on those BD HFs, like 6 Suncannons, 6 Disinfectors, 6 Daitos, etc.


And Jonathan is correct.. Sabre is extremely easy to hit without strafe. Bigger target than the Titan. If Strafe is to be nerfed, don't increase mass passed 100.

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[mjolnir]

BD does not die to one cannoball. I hit them with it quite often...

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Anyway you said you don't use Codenames and no proper BD does...

so what's the problem with changing the weapon slots to class 9 max?

I don't see any.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jihadjoe]

A note on the sabre.

It functions as a fighter ship should do. How about we leave it as it is and bring other ships up to it. If things need a rebalence, then do it around one or two ships that are good ships.

The reason the Sabre is so good is because it moves very fast. The rerason it was made to move very fast is because its more than just a little bit vulnerable to explosives. a sidewinder/cannonball combo is enough to blow one up, and I know thats the case because I have tested it.

however I do agree the sabre is a bit too far beyond most other fighters at the moment, but thats not to say it needs a nerf, just bring other stuff up. If it does need a nerf, then do it in the region of strafe not turn speed.

The other thing is, some ships should be better than other ships. For instance, the Corsairs have rather a good GB, and a fighter that I quite like, but lots of others find very hard to fly (admittedly those wings are mine magnets). The Outcasts (well borderworlds really) have a very very nice fighter and a GB that won't be as good as the Corsair GB.


I suppose what I am trying to say is that putting balence in the game isn't about making everything the same quality. Its about getting balence between factions.

Plus I fly the BD HF and I love it, nice little ship that thing.

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[mjolnir]

I agree with that... if all are the same it's boring.
EDIT: That's why I suggested decreas in Turning not in Strafing as others, to keep it different


question is how much better/worse is ok?

When one ship is way ahead of others, I see it as easier to change the one ship instead of all others.

Small change on the Sabre will still make sure it's better than others, but not by that much => pilot skill can compensate.

And I have 4 Sabres, 3 of which I fly a lot (LH ones), so my point is not to nerf it so that it's unflyable.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.