VHF balance

[Dab]

BD does not die to one cannoball. I hit them with it quite often...

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Anyway you said you don't use Codenames and no proper BD does...

so what's the problem with changing the weapon slots to class 9 max?

I don't see any.

You'd be surprised what can kill a BD..

I said no proper BD uses Krakens. A few use Codenames, and I see 1-2 as okay. My BD HF has 5 Disinfectors and a single Codename (Bloodstone, not the best, but I like it) Thats one problem with changing the weapon slots. Second is that you want 4x 9s and 2x 8s. That doesn't allow 6 Suncannon Ds, or 6 Daitos. And it baffles me why Terri would suggest this seeing that the duel we had together, I had a VERY hard time dropping his shields (he might have been using a shield that was good against Disinfectors, but the point still stands). I hit him a ton more than he hit me, but I couldn't drop his shields. If I had been using only 2 Suncannon Cs and 4 Suncannon Ds I never would have stood the faintest chance..

If your going to try to get the weapons nerfed in any way, just make it have 4x 9s and 2x 10s. Anything lower and its useless.

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[old.steel]

I think the balancing of the VHFs is good, including the faction limitations.

The problem is the role-play at all.

It is interesting to pick up a RP fighter and do the RP with its limitations.
That is discovery.

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[Lohingren]

for once *scrubs tongue with soap* i agree with mjolnir yes i agree i agree it doesnt happen much but it is right now.

The Sabres Turning ability should be nerfed joe's suggestion would work also but that wouldnt make it a Unique craft, the uniqueness of the Sabre is its strafe, the strafing of it makes it a good ship, to be honest it has a bigger front profile than a titan, it is easier to hit head on than a titan hurting its strafe would make it useless head on, reducing its turning to the old vanilla stats as i have said for a long time now should do the trick.

so yes decrease turning of sabre (but it should still be faster than most ships of its class (besides the eagle eagle should ALWAYS be the fastest) it just shouldnt be as fast as it is) which is basically super speeds, keep strafe as is

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Reapers of Sirius Database

[Varyag]

Hows about the Death Sythe? It needs a power plant boost and a manuverablity boost. Right now it is as big as a avenger, has 4 class 6 guns and 2 class 7, 4400 armor and is less manuverable then all VHF and the majority of Bombers.

I am sure that a little boost would make the few Junker pilots happy:)

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[Jihadjoe]

Just give it VHF weapons keeping the lame armour, crappy manueverability and being big. Jusat so long as it has the CD slot and torp slot everyone will be happy.

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[chopper]

@Dab -

The Chimaera VHF has 2,000 more armor (BD: 9600, Chim: 12,400), and almost the same exact agility, turning, etc.

Ever flown a Chimaera? Everyone who has both BD and Chimaera will disagree with this statement.
Difference in agility is big, but difference in turning rate is HUGE.
Can you somehow prove me wrong? Numbers are on our side, really.

Another thing is, Blood Dragon is very hard to be instant killed.
1 CB? Oh please, cut that, I'v flown the ship, 1 CB takes around 2/3 of hull.
It is almost impossible to be hit with a nuke mine, unless you hit it's back wing - but then it survives.
Also, due to it's size, it's pretty damn hard to SN it, impossible if pilot knows his job.
Chimaera also can't be instant killed easily, but I think it's balanced due to it's reduced agility.
BD isn't.

I'd lower it's guns to 2x8's and 4x9's. That way it would really be a HF, and a pretty damn good one.

Dab, your fight with Razr isn't really an argument. He's dodging really well.
For example, I'v been able to lower people's shields in a Slipstream with 2 Debilitators, 2 hellfurries and 2 kraken 1's.
That's 2x7, 2x8 and 2x9.

So.. Do you see the difference? Yes.. Start using shield busters.
Using 6 hullbusters (w/o razor/inferno) in 1vs1 is insane, and using this situation as an argument is even more insane.

I still have my Blood Dragon HF and I have no reason what so ever to be biased.
My honest opinion is that it needs some kind of nerf. Not a big one, of course.

Also, I would like to remind people about it's infocard. It's meant for Blood Dragons only.
Yes, I know, HG chaps made a sentence in their "faction page" about allowing that ship to be used by their allies.
It's bull.. Why? Because I'v heard soooo many times about respecting infocards, respecting vanilla or what not.
And yet no one respects it.
Use BD bombers, I don't mind. Use BD battleships, I don't mind.
But leave the damn BD HF to be used by BD only.
It's infocard states that and it should be respected by everyone.
Or change the infocard and then use it.
But like this - it makes no sense.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Zapp]

Here's my piece on the Sabre, seeing as I'm the resident "Sabre whore"...

The Sabre's got a few things going for it, namely strafing and speed. One time I fought two Hussars and won by out-turning them (OK, the first one died before he knew what hit him, so it was really only one), me using the good ol' anchor turn and him apparently not.

A VHF beating an LF in a turning battle? lolwut? (to be honest, skill might have had something to do as my Infernos were hitting, but that's besides the point)

The thing is a beast. It's just too amazing, and to be completely honest, I used to hate it. Love it now, used to hate it. Now, I've grown to love the Templar and Guardian, so I can deal with the Sabre getting a nerf in a reduction of turning speed and a slight increasing of mass (as indeed, that is what makes the ship unique, it's ability to strafe).

The powerplant is fine as-is, though a slight boost would not be amiss, as you have to consider the Inferno and subsequent shots on the same pass.

One unpleasant (for the people not flying Sabres) side-effect to decreasing the speed and turning is more accurate Inferno shots. On a BD bomber I hit almost every pass with the Inferno (and I sucked in that thing), and I'm great with an Inferno on my Templar (now that I got used to the unusual [for me] hardpoint placing). Just thought I'd point out that the slower the ship, the easier Infernos are to hit.

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[mjolnir]

Well Zapp you know Wrath has actually faster turning than Sabre... but strafing nowhere near it..

now both you, me and a lot of other people can stay alive without taking any damage in the Sabre, while getting shot by 5++ people in fighters.

In a Wrath (now in 4.84) you yourself can't dodge 3 ships (with good aimers), I actually can't do that either.
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But I see we agree

I can deal with the Sabre getting a nerf in a reduction of turning speed and a slight increasing of mass (as indeed, that is what makes the ship unique, it's ability to strafe)

It should keep good strafing (not uber one), so the main decrease should be in turning.

That said I think the bottom limit should be Guardian/Chimaera turning speed (1.17), provided strafing stays reasonably fast.


EDIT: If the vanilla ship vulnerability will get removed there will be extremely many ships that would need rebalance btw. As I already wrote I would actually prefer the current non-vanilla ships to be upped towards current vanilla ones. If it will be the other way bombers will get uber.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[chopper]

now both you, me and a lot of other people can stay alive without taking any damage in the Sabre, while getting shot by 5++ people in fighters.

7 Vipers couldn't hit my hull : )

Anyway, I also fly a Sabre, but I also fight against it.
It requires a bit different piloting.
That means, if you are jousting without shield, strafing won't help ya, you'll die just like in any other ship.
If you use it's dodging capabilities well, it's almost invincible.
So, yes, turning rate can be decreased to some 1.8 or 1.9 if mass stays the same.
It will still be much better then it's main competitor Titan.

Also, I really hope wireframes will not get removed. If it happens, Nuke mine damage needs to be increased to some 40k, so it can still kill people instantly.
But then, Capital ships will suffer from Nuke mines as well.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[mjolnir]

turning rate can be decreased to some 1.8 or 1.9 if mass stays the same.

:lol: A bit of a typo I guess.



I'm taking the rest elsewhere:

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20311

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.