Should a recommended ship list exist?

[Akumabito]

And yes some ships will not be allowed to certain groups, thats just the way it is.

That isn't how it has to be, at least to the point where some ships are allowed to some users of an ID and not others.

Exclusionary policies are not right in most cases. If there is an allowance for one merc to fly the ravens claw, all should be allowed. If one GC can fly the BD bomber, all should have that option, without depending on a faction leader to say OK, and all the possible lack of fairness and complications that such a scenario brings about.

[Dusty Lens]

It applies to factions because it requires faction approval.

There is no ship quandary as you suggest, NPC's fly certain ships for almost every faction, and that is what the faction should fly with very few exceptions. If there is some justification for more than one ship (like the CG, who could use BD ships in RP), then why does there need to be faction approval, just allow those ships for that ID if it makes sense, and disallow the ships that don't make sense.

There is no need for a yellow, a ship either makes sense for an ID or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then don't fly it. I'm sure everyone can RP within those limits just fine.

I disagree with you there. There's plenty of examples of where that's simply not the case.

While talking with the official factions is a charming way to go about doing things if you enjoy interacting with your fellow players there's no law that requires you do anything save secure yourself an ID that matches the vessel or have a daggon good reason why it does not.

If you're going to dredge up the 101st ship registry as an example to the contrary you'll find that you shan't be sanctioned for being an Outcast with an Outcast destroyer that has abstained from registering, any moreso than Laowai's indie Corsair cruiser is going to be sanctioned for outright refusing, in a charming arpee fashion, to refusing to sign the TBH/OPG roster. If the 101st decides to take you down because you're refusing an edict from the command of Malta's navy, well, you can either bitch on the forum about it or recognize that sometimes in the world of multiplayer other people might wish to interact with you in a way that you find contrary to how you'd like to see it go.

The Rheinland military, likewise, is an organization that's tauted for being extremely tight fisted with the vessel associated with its faction. That's a movement led by your counterpart Praetyre, the guy who stands on the opposite end of the indie/faction spectrum. That being said I ran with the RM for a long while and the bulk majority of the faction, including the folks who count, don't give a fiddler's damn about who has what so long as you've a level head on your shoulder.

Cheshire chose to get his vessel via official channels, it worked out fine for him. Wesely actually started as an indie RM flying his Wrath afor he defected to the LWB, retaining his vessel in the process. He didn't have the 'permission' of the RM to pull that stunt and flew with them plenty of times as an indie without muss nor fuss.

To conclude: stating that you -must- fly the exact same vessels as your NPC counterpart is bullocks and almost certainly a viewpoint you're now pushing in the aftermath of your aborted atempt to smuggle a Bretonian battleship to the Blood Dragons, ahh, just a few days ago actually. The NPCs are the rank and file and they get their rank and file ships. The players represent the fellows who have lives that twist and turn in remarkable ways and perhaps make a bit of a name for themselves. In that process the tools of flexibility to enhance one's rp are provided to them.

From the standpoint of one who does the best he can to keep Xenos out of sanction ville, indeed one of the two founding points behind the XA, I think a list such as this would provide an exceptionally useful tool for those persons seeking to look about and see what may be available to them.

[Akumabito]

I disagree with you there. There's plenty of examples of where that's simply not the case.

Name some then. Your post, while wordy, didn't actually refute the point that it's actually very easy and fair to determine if a ship meets a RP requirement for a certain ID or not, and while exceeding that requirement by one faction getting togather with another and rping swapping ships might seem like a great idea for a pvp focused faction, it isn't really needed for rp, and it complicates the issue.

Either a ship should be allowed for the ID, or it should be disallowed, across the board.

That's being fair to every player here, instead of being just another faction power grab to give you a pvp advantage over an indie.

[tiepo]

Wouldn't it be more in-RP for an indie with a faction id to be unable to get the ships in dispute?

Arguably, the faction they don't belong to is a powerful organization with ties to ship-licensing, distribution, etc. These aren't just cars. Even the slowest freighter has guns, so it is reasonable to assume that a faction would have control over their distribution.

So the faction is being unfair? That's life. Life isn't fair. An independent security firm that has goals in line and works hand in hand with a nation's army may still be limited in the equipment it can buy. Then again, if they are good friends with a general, they might find unusual leniency in operating procedures, contract negotiation, equipment purchases, etc.

Is that too realistic?

Speaking from a "games are fun-YAY!" perspective, the attraction of factions is a measure of authority. It makes them interesting... to me.

---

Aurelius - Front-line banker

[Dusty Lens]

And I'm still waiting for you to find some way to explain why fair across the board isn't good enough for the factions. Got anything yet?

Yes, my post did have many words. Read them all again and then formulate your reply.

If you find it takes a while, I'd suggest warming up a mug of tea to accompany you through your long, troublesome journey through the realm of notions contrary to your own.

Though by what you said up there

rping swapping ships might seem like a great idea for a pvp focused faction, it isn't really needed for rp, and it complicates the issue.

does leave room for much preponderance for your recent attempt to migrate yon Bretonian battleship to the Blood Dragons... That wasn't a PVP motivated gesture I hope!

[Akumabito]

Wouldn't it be more in-RP for an indie with a faction id to be unable to get the ships in dispute?

How so? The ID determines the indies affiliation. If he is flying a liberty police ID he is liberty police, he hasn't joined a faction but he is still liberty police and has access to the same guns, ships and equipment they do.

That's how it should be, for indie or faction, your ID is your ID. The issue comes when there is this yellow list, a list that steps outside the ID to allow you to flay a ship that you wouldn't ordinarily be able to, because your buddies runs their faction (and maybe you even have a character in it).

[Akumabito]

Though by what you said up there
does leave room for much preponderance for your recent attempt to migrate yon Bretonian battleship to the Blood Dragons... That wasn't a PVP motivated gesture I hope!

Why don't you ask Unselie?


And I'm still waiting for you to find some way to explain why fair across the board isn't good enough for the factions. Got anything yet?

[Dusty Lens]

Why don't you ask Unselie?
And I'm still waiting for you to find some way to explain why fair across the board isn't good enough for the factions. Got anything yet?

I'm still waiting for you to read that long 'ol post I threw up there. Judging by your posting around here you've got the spare time for it.

Though, of course it would be easier to simply keep on rolling over posts and get right to throwing out a little more of whatever you just dropped into your hand.

[Asymptotic]

[color=#CC0000]LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

[Dusty Lens]

While amusing, that's not a terribly strong counter argument in the context of hushing the troll.

I mean, if he's going to rant and rave about people using ships that don't match their ID to gain a pvp edge while dancing atop his own post complaining about the BD battleship being inferior right on the eve of grabbing a superior battleship to defect to the Blood Dragons... Well, you'll need to take a different approach!

Edit: can we get this thing moved to flood? As it's not dealing with any sort of server rule and it's really mucking up my post count responding to this lulzish noise.