Should a recommended ship list exist?

[Akumabito]

I have not yet, nor do I intend to flame you, insult you or otherwise misrepresent you in print. I'll leave that to your signature.

No, nor do you do anything other than accept it from your peers. I can only assume when they do it it is acceptable to you.

And my sig is a direct quote from a faction leader, it illustrated her point of view. It wasn't irony so there is no misrepresentation.

Hoofing: Colloquialism, telling off, punishing

That is an imprecise, unquantified term that can be used to hide a bias in punishment between factions and indies.

Why allow any indication of bias?

Quantity of RP: subjective according to the admins. The only factionalised quantity of RP is the 101st battleship requirement for at least 1 page, it does not define quality.

So the admins are supposed to keep track of everyones RP and what they are flying and use some metric? How, when they don't even try to get to the facts before using their ban stick?

It is better than a simple yes or no, because a simple yes or no, does not account for the fact that some ship choices are by their nature nebulous.

Once they are on the black and white list they are no longer nebulous, right? So the yes/no list is the best answer to this point as I see it.

it allows independents, in the main, to have a ship choice that is not standard. Most factions won't need to read it as they already have a recommended ships list in their status.

Independents are better served by a lack of ambiguity. Most don't spend time on the server anyway, so a black and white list allows for their limited roleplay better than some ambiguity in a list does.

The factions have no say in whether a forum written RP is acceptable. None whatsoever, that is left up to the admins to decide.

Well they have the pvp whore power, but it doesn't matter, the admins can't track every player, nor do they try. The factions do use sanction reports against indies as a method of revenge though, and that is where the power lies, not with the king but with the bureaucrat.

Isn't it so much simpler, and fair across the board to eliminate all the squalor that we have now, and fix it? A black and white list does that, this gray list is nothing different than what exists now.

I have no fear of the truth.

Good, neither do I, but we seem to be the two exceptions.

[Nikolaus]

Good grief. After parsing trough about 19 pages of seriously argumented nonsense it is my expert opinion that you people should please stop this argument and let one of the higher powers decide upon this situation.

[Akumabito]

If I get 98% of the world to agree with me however, then the sky is pink. Whether or not you make a twenty page thread refuting it.

Truth is subjective. Let us say that Bluntpencil is a poster child for what happens when you put your head in a lion's mouth, but that this may only true here on these forums. I cannot tell you what the truth is outside of these forums because I do not have information. Thusly the truth of blunts prediliction for antognising dangerous critters is subjective to the points of view he has presented in these forums.

Let us say that F=MA, something considered a physical law, but thsi is in fact only subjective to the points of data collected in reference to it. We cannot say that this will hold true for all bodies of mass, simply becuase we do not have the data.

While truth is subjective in some cases, usually where the truth is not fully known, that is the exception, not the rule.

Take for example Todd Willingham, executed for a crime he did not commit. The truth according to your subjective reasoning is that when he was killed by the state he had killed three girls, but the truth is he didn't.

Why do you think Bluntpencil is afraid of the truth?

[Dusty Lens]

Good grief. Is this still going on?

[bluntpencil2001]

Meh, I'm enjoying it. I'm mostly listening to music, but this gives me something to type at the same time.

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[Eppy]

This IS amusing...let the fun continue.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Reverend Del]

No, nor do you do anything other than accept it from your peers. I can only assume when they do it it is acceptable to you.

I will concede this point with good grace, up til now I have done nothing against the flaming, and you are right, by not explicitly codemning it I am in fact condoning. I do not intend to. I do not support the flaming. Done.

And my sig is a direct quote from a faction leader, it illustrated her point of view. It wasn't irony so there is no misrepresentation.

No your sig is a part of a direct quote from Unselie, it does not represent the whole facts of her post. Thusly it is misrepresentation.

That is an imprecise, unquantified term that can be used to hide a bias in punishment between factions and indies.

Yes, but it is my choice of language that is at fault. The term I should have used was sanction. Suddenly it's a lot more quanitified.

So the admins are supposed to keep track of everyones RP and what they are flying and use some metric? How, when they don't even try to get to the facts before using their ban stick?

No. A sanction can be overturned, simply point at your RP and say" Look there it is, is it acceptable enough to overturn this sanction?" There is no metric for this however and neither can there be. I do not know how they decide if an RP story is acceptable, but they do.

Once they are on the black and white list they are no longer nebulous, right? So the yes/no list is the best answer to this point as I see it.

Quite correct, however it removes an aspect of flexibility. Thusly stifling role-play. This is not good for a server that purports to be role-play based.

Independents are better served by a lack of ambiguity. Most don't spend time on the server anyway, so a black and white list allows for their limited roleplay better than some ambiguity in a list does.

Just last week you were a strong advocate of Independents being able to do whatever they wanted. It would also limit what some Indepndents choose to do. What ship is Mon'Star to use when he is aligned to no faction within the scope of his RP? How does your idea fit into Jinx's RP, given that Jinx is only ever active on an Independent character. To limitn all Independents flies in the face of this server, frankly as far as I'm concerned, limiting any indepndents flys in the face of this server.

Well they have the pvp whore power, but it doesn't matter, the admins can't track every player, nor do they try. The factions do use sanction reports against indies as a method of revenge though, and that is where the power lies, not with the king but with the bureaucrat.

I disgree with the act of blowing up independnts on the basis that they do not conform to a factions RP, this is why the Liberty Rogues do not do it.

The sanctions are voted on by every active admin, which is how most mistakes are prevented. It is not a tool for revenge nor should it be used as such.

The power is a fallacy anyway, as these admins and faction leaders only have power whilst those under them choose to continue playing. If the playing stops the power evaporates. Any Admin or faction leader knows this and thusly the iron fist approach is incredibly rare and only used by the most extreme. Yes I do consider Eppy to be extreme. But then he knows this.

Isn't it so much simpler, and fair across the board to eliminate all the squalor that we have now, and fix it? A black and white list does that, this gray list is nothing different than what exists now.

If it could be fixed without removing the freedoms of those it would affect I would be all for it, but it would cripple some folks, and that is unacceptable. This is a viable alternative.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Ratchet]

//Ok what is the problem with the ship list again? I got confuzzled. I think its a good guide for new players. How is that wrong again?

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PART 1 - <span style="color:#3333FF">Ratchet Reloaded</span>

[Dennis Jameson]

It's wrong cause ::sobs:: people are getting oppressed! Do you want your children to live in a world where they're not allowed to fly ::sobs even more:: the ship they want?!

[/sarcasm]

Ah... I love this thread.

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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

10/6

[Ichtan]

Well I didn't want to but...



So...

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