That's the difference; there's logic in Del's post, whereas the term 'well-thought-out' cannot be applied to Akumabito under the laws of physics specific to this three-dimensional reality we inhabit. Read up on Akuma's posting history, over the course of every thread he's ever posted in (they're all like this one). You will discover that every single one of his posts boils down to one of three or four basic ideas that have not changed despite the fact that nearly every single person knowledgeable on the subjects has, at some time, told him that he is wrong. He quotes us out of context and warps our words to say whatever he finds most insulting and refuses to listen to any logic whatsoever, blundly pursuing what he believes to be The One True Path (that only he understands). Yes, Del is one of the few (the proud; the Marines) that actually tried to debate him, because he's just that good a guy; even in a deadlock augmented by sheer stupidity he valiantly still tries to apply logic instead of direct force (or he'll do both, when logic is direct force) when it will obviosly do no good. The rest of us, we're just letting him have it because we're sick and tired of his crap.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
Still though, be the better man. His mindset has changed from "should we have a ship list?" to "let's have a ship list, but make it completely unambiguous." However little his view has changed, it has changed. We need dissenters - as loud as they may be. They keep asking questions which allows others to answer and strengthen their argument, and perhaps cast doubt on arguments that are weak.
He believes that the list in it's current form is open to abuse, and although there is certainly a possibility of this happening, to me it seems like role-playing for certain ships is a good idea (the current list is pretty good).
He is proposing a black-and-white list, where you can either get the ship, or you can't. The question is - which idea is more advantageous?
So, rephrased, why do you think that a black-and-white list is disadvantageous, Epyon?
Becuase, simply, it unnecessarily limits Roleplay. If you have a decent reason to fly the ship you're flying and you can present that reason there should be absolutely nothing stopping you from flying that ship except inacessability (as in, it's only available on the Battlestar or in Nomad space), unless it happens to be a faction restriction, in which case it's not a server issue, it's entirely in-RP and not related to the server rules at all.
The is no longer the issue here; Akumabito has all but lost his right to dissent simply by dissenting for no other reason than to dissent; he's not trying to improve the server at all, he simply wants to fight; we will be more than pleased to meet his challenge and place him in his grave, as we have; he keeps pounding on the lid of his coffin, though, and that's why we're mad at him. Believe me, I'm all for conflict and natural selection, but if there isn't a valid reason for it (and look at his posting history and motives, there ISN'T valid reasoning) then battle should not be initiated. Now, I'm off to play some CoD, talk amongst yourselves...
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
' Wrote:...I think he's trying to get us on-topic...
Becuase, simply, it unnecessarily limits Roleplay.
A rather simplistic answer, and this from a guy who demands cap ship registration yet cannot explain how it actually helps the server, and who's posting history is one of flames and spam almost exclusively.
Wasn't one of your registered cap ships recently banned for a speed mod? And one of your 101st was just fined for reengaging? maybe you better look toward your own instead?
As far as this topic, it doesn't limit the ability to RP at all, it just limits the ability to RP yourself into a ship not in the "yes" column. The same way the F1 rule limits your RP so you can't have a jump hole generator on your ship.
I know, the idea for some seems to be crippling, that they can't RP there way into a ravens claw with a Xeno ID for instance, but they can still RP their Xeno just fine.
The main difference is one of simplicity and fairness. No one gets special treatment, everyone has access to the same ships for their chosen role. It removes ambiguity and eliminates arbitrary ship assignment. It makes things simpler, and takes a load off the admins so they can focus on banning people more quickly.
It's the best way to bring some order to the server, and actually encourage role play within the role instead of roll play where you will have dozens of people looking at this list, finding better ships on the yellow list, and posting gobs of Roll play designed simply to get that ship for munchkinism.
Akuma can be compared to Nintendo.... He squirts out the same tired stuff all the damned time. (Atleast nintendo has the decensy to design a new box art for each one of their "new" games...)
Well, I think some interesting points have been raised here. However it seems that the debate has become somewhat circular in nature with neither side being able to convince the other that it is in the right.
Perhaps it's time to resort to the simplistic beauty of the majority consensus to determine how the community feels about a recommended ship list.
Guys just stop with the needless attack really i wanted to discuss the ships list. Not your opinions of Akumabito's appeals and posts. SirFish is correct to steer us to topic so lets get to it. Regardless of the reasons Akumabito starting this topic it is a good topic to discuss.
I may begin researching to form a list. And summit it for all those to understand. Done Finish Akumabito's wishes are met now enough with this immature reception. This is not like Disco at all. This seems more like a Halo forum. This conduct has me ashamed to be part of Disco.
' Wrote:Guys just stop with the needless attack really i wanted to discuss the ships list. Not your opinions of Akumabito's appeals and posts. SirFish is correct to steer us to topic so lets get to it. Regardless of the reasons Akumabito starting this topic it is a good topic to discuss.
I may begin researching to form a list. And summit it for all those to understand. Done Finish Akumabito's wishes are met now enough with this immature reception. This is not like Disco at all. This seems more like a Halo forum. This conduct has me ashamed to be part of Disco.
Stop making ignorant, "let's be friends" statements, there's already a list that's being updated and revised.
If we weren't hostile to people like Akuma, and possibly people like you (yet to see), then this server and forums would collapse in a week. Not everyone who comes here is welcome.
' Wrote:Truth is what we perceive it to be, not what it is.
This is true.
' Wrote:Hey I was just playing this game called Discovery , you guys should check it out when you get time off from posting in the forums.
Nice.
' Wrote:Good grief. After parsing trough about 19 pages of seriously argumented nonsense it is my expert opinion that you people should please stop this argument and let one of the higher powers decide upon this situation.
I wouldn't mind seeing some Admin decision on some stuff concerning factions.
' Wrote:You guys who aren't adding anything to the discussion are being punks. Plain and simple. Did you notice that when Del posted a well-thought out post, that Akumabito posted likewise?
The arguments presented both side have merit. I think it's a great idea to have a list to help players see which choices are available to them. Similarly, however, this list needs to not impede role-play and at the same time be unambiguous. This list seems to be doing that fairly well.
Wow. Kudos to you.
' Wrote:He quotes us out of context and warps our words to say whatever he finds most insulting and refuses to listen to any logic whatsoever, blundly pursuing what he believes to be The One True Path (that only he understands).
The one true path? I wonder eppy, how many of us here are pursuing what we believe as the one true path hmm?
' Wrote:Still though, be the better man. His mindset has changed from "should we have a ship list?" to "let's have a ship list, but make it completely unambiguous." However little his view has changed, it has changed. We need dissenters - as loud as they may be. They keep asking questions which allows others to answer and strengthen their argument, and perhaps cast doubt on arguments that are weak.
We do need people like that. More in fact. (I'm not suggesting more extreme people, I consider Akumabito a little extreme.)
People, with the exception of the few won't recognise that slight change in his view and it is most unfortunate. Most of them just set him to ignore. Why? Perhaps it's like a fashion statement? "Yeah I set to Akumabito to ignore and now I'm going to post in this forum that I set him to ignore. Yeah."
' Wrote:Akumabito has all but lost his right to dissent simply by dissenting for no other reason than to dissent; he's not trying to improve the server at all, he simply wants to fight; we will be more than pleased to meet his challenge and place him in his grave, as we have; he keeps pounding on the lid of his coffin, though, and that's why we're mad at him. Believe me, I'm all for conflict and natural selection, but if there isn't a valid reason for it (and look at his posting history and motives, there ISN'T valid reasoning) then battle should not be initiated. Now, I'm off to play some CoD, talk amongst yourselves...
He has not lost that right. Just because you and others believe he has.
Just a little point Epyon, with Akumabito's post. How does your registration list promote RP or stop OORP again? Thanks.
' Wrote:Stop making ignorant, "let's be friends" statements, there's already a list that's being updated and revised.
If we weren't hostile to people like Akuma, and possibly people like you (yet to see), then this server and forums would collapse in a week. Not everyone who comes here is welcome.
People like Akumabito? If you weren't hostile to these people?
If there wasn't any hostilities/debates/arguments this server would stagnate and die. It would become cronyism of the elite and become quite boring. (Surprisingly, this is what Akumabito suggests in some of his posts is happening already. With even less of "people like Akuma" we would get there sooner.)
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