Reminder to traders: plan for a new ID

[bluntpencil2001]

So how do powertraders ruin it for the real RPers?

Because they are trading where they shouldn't be, forcing pirates to pirate where they shouldn't be, forcing the law enforcers to patrol where they shouldn't be.

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[Akumabito]

By making the admins ever come to this ruling.

But you like this ruling, so if powertraders caused then powertraders are good, right?

[Orin]

I never said I liked this ruling. I said I'm waiting until I see it in effect until I decide.

[Kuraine]

And since there is no ZOI restriction on corperate traders, we will just corperate ID'd traders everywhere except where they will be shot, and nothing will change.

You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension, as you so often are. The zones of Influence of corporations are not restricted in the same sense as pirate organisations etc, although they are restricted nonetheless. For example, they cannot land at unlawful bases. They are also restricted by the RP of the houses in which they pass through. Rheinland corporations are going to be far from welcome in Liberty, Bretonian corporations are going to be unwelcome in Kusari, and vice versa. Rheinland and Liberty corporations are going to get treated with disdain by the authorities in Kusari and hostility by the unlawfuls. Bretonian and Kusari corporations will get treated with suspicion in Rheinland, but only Kusari corporations will get treated with contempt and real hostility by the Rheinland unlawfuls. The Rheinland unlawfuls are generally indifferent to bretonian corporations, treating them like any other regular shipping.

Anyway, for example the Mollys can exterminate BMM on sight. That doesn't mean they can't pirate anyone else. If it says you can destroy on sight a specific corporation or ID, then it doesn't stop you from pirating other IDs that aren't listed. It just means you can't blow them away on sight. The ones listed as destroy on sight at the corporations or other factions that your particular faction hates more with a passion and doesn't usually want to bother taking captive or looting, but simply annihilating them or doing as much damage as you possibly can. You can of course still pirate them if you really want to.

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Kuraine (Zoner tagged Trader)
Ravenholm (Zoner tagged Zoner Destroyer)
Bill Mason[Arms.Dealer] (Zoner tagged Arms Dealer)
LR-Drax (Liberty Rogue tagged Cruiser)
LR-Dravis (Liberty Rogue tagged VHF)
[RHA]Wilhelm.Wettin (Red Hessian tagged VHF)
[GC]-Ai.Takeda (Golden Chrysanthemum tagged VHF/Bomber)

[Akumabito]

You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension, as you so often are. The zones of Influence of corporations are not restricted in the same sense as pirate organisations etc,

That's exactly what I said, Kuraine, so where is this "misapprehension" that I am laboring under.

What you didn't get is that because a corporate trader is not restricted by ZOI, these KOS assignments are meaningless. Basically if a BMM tagged trader has a good run that goes through a Molly ZOI (wherever that is) he will simply choose another ID.

Also, nothing stops the BMM trader from going to Rhiendland, and the RM can't do anything unless they are at war with BMM.

Nothing now even stops liberty traders from going to rhiendland.

[cmfalconer]

First, I'll repost what I said earlier, as you seem to have ignored it...strange that you accuse others of the same thing

what are you aiming at? quit beating around the bush and say it. specifics, details, minutia. don't be so circumspect. That's one of your problems in debates Akuma, you are not direct in asking your question, which leads to ambiguity which leads to cranky pants which leads to locked threads.

Please please please give more details as to EXACTLY what you want to know. perhaps writing an example ID for your favored blood dragons perhaps, showing exactly what you'd like to see in it.

Next. I think Kuraine spelled it out pretty well, and you swung at another bad pitch, strike...crap i lost count.

Your first example of a BMM-tagged trader heading through Molly space with a different ID. 1) he's still BMM-tagged...blow him/her up. 2)They are violating a server rule about tag and ID must match to the best of their ability. Sanction if you must. Problem solved on two accounts.

Next.

Nothing does stop a BMM trader from going to Rheinland, and why should it? RM still has the authority to scan said trader, and if deemed inappropriate, gets handled in that military's fashion. Oh wait, that's done now. And correctly. I'm tagged Universal, I go into Rheinland carrying a load of Cobalt from Bretonia. I get scanned, asked where I'm from and where I'm going, and am sent on my way.

Now if a poor LWB came up to me, disabled my trade-lane, and I was hauling Lux Food to Augsburg, said LWB might take offense, and demand a pretty high price from me, but since i'm not synth-foods he/she has no right to straight up blow me away without making some demand first.

This might be your little problem with the proposed system, that the LWB cannot blow my Universal trader up because Universal isn't specifically laid out in the LWB ID as being KOS. Tough rocks. Demand 5m, make me dump my cargo in lieu of picking some up on Stuttgart, and send me on my way. Oh wait, that would be an RP encounter...perish another thought.

I feel like handing you a straw, you seem to be missing those you are trying to grasp at.

Specifics, details, minutia...not pompous one-liners about semantics to Orin, I don't care about that argument from either of you.

$.02

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[Akumabito]

Your first example of a BMM-tagged trader heading through Molly space with a different ID. 1) he's still BMM-tagged...blow him/her up. 2)They are violating a server rule about tag and ID must match to the best of their ability. Sanction if you must. Problem solved on two accounts.

You miss the point, he won't be BMM tagged or ID'd. People will simply not fly ID'd that put their trading at significant risk. They don't do it now, they won't do it with the new ID's.

Understand now or do I need to explain it more?

Nothing does stop a BMM trader from going to Rheinland, and why should it? RM still has the authority to scan said trader, and if deemed inappropriate, gets handled in that military's fashion. Oh wait, that's done now. And correctly. I'm tagged Universal, I go into Rheinland carrying a load of Cobalt from Bretonia. I get scanned, asked where I'm from and where I'm going, and am sent on my way.

Or not. Unless the trader is carrying contraband he doesn't even have to say "lolwut", and if he is a powertrader he won't.

Now if a poor LWB came up to me, disabled my trade-lane, and I was hauling Lux Food to Augsburg, said LWB might take offense, and demand a pretty high price from me, but since i'm not synth-foods he/she has no right to straight up blow me away without making some demand first.

Right, so this is the standard "2millorUdiiiii!" encounter that we have now and love, so the new ID does nothing here, it restricts without improving.

This might be your little problem with the proposed system

It's just one of them, the fact that it basicallt tells the powertraders what ships to avoid flying, and protects them from everything but the "2millorUdi!" encounter that we already have.

That's why you need to pay attention to the details, now do and try real hard to come up with how this new ID scheme improves the server, ok?

[beander2]

You miss the point, he won't be BMM tagged or ID'd. People will simply not fly ID'd that put their trading at significant risk. They don't do it now, they won't do it with the new ID's.

This doesn't mean the player's free to trade anywhere. If s/he is no longer BMM-tagged or -ID'd, then s/he has to be something else. It isn't giving up a tag/ID for total freedom, but rather trading one tag/ID for another, which means trading one set of RP diplomacy for another set. This is perfectly fine if a trader wants to "switch companies," as it were, but most won't do it every time they want a different route because of the rep-fixing it requires to switch.

Therefore, power-trading is mitigated by making the rep-switching a bit more laborious, and making it so that a player is responsible to a particular set of RP commitments at any given time, even if s/he switches between sets from time to time.

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Akumabito]

Therefore, power-trading is mitigated by making the rep-switching a bit more laborious, and making it so that a player is responsible to a particular set of RP commitments at any given time, even if s/he switches between sets from time to time.

I'm not talking about switching between sets, I'm talking about choosing ID's that are foreign to the ZOI so you aren't on a KOS list for anyone there and can stay neutral to all the NPCs.

[cmfalconer]

Point1: OK, then this trader is an independent contractor, changing ID's and eating into his/her profit margin because selling ID's at 1/4 the cost of the new one, on top of getting the appropriate rep to BUY the new ID necessary. Plus, you said yourself he's BMM tagged, mentioning nothing about changing the tag, just the ID...apologies for misunderstanding the facts presented.
Another option for this trader is the FreelancerID, but limits said trader to 3600 (?) cargo. This brings back the point made earlier that it doesn't solve anything, just makes the trader seen more often by authorities...which leads to more chances for encounters, which leads to more opportunity for RP or the learning of RP.

Point2: Then that trader gets put on a "Most Wanted" list by the military and police of that system, and either waits to play until that military/police leave, or finds another route. Either way, they are dealt with in the manner fitting a military/police force being ignored by a trader/driver. For instance (one of those specifics things), if you ignore the laws of your given municipality, pretty soon the officials of said municipality will have you on their radar and will treat you more harshly...same thing here.

Point3: Not so. By what you're proposing, or seem to because of ambiguity, this little LWB bugger would blow up my transport just because I'm an "enemy" of him, probably appearing red in his HUD. Of course there will still be the "2mordai" encounters, that's just an unrealistic expectation because people are involved. And not everyone will treat the rules, and the server, the same. It happens, and it's NOT something you can change by adjusting the rules in any way, shape, or form.

You can't force someone to role-play. what you can do is put some roadblocks in his/her way and hope that through a little adversity, you can keep the fruits and expel any chaff that sees fit to try and ruin your harvest.

Point4: What details? All I see is a devil's advocate, taking the negative stance without giving any suggestions other than scrapping the entire idea. And then not giving anything constructive in return for scrapping said idea. Always taking the negative stance and shooting down other people's constructive comments, while possibly being an effective argument tactic, in the end accomplishes very little except the alienation of the nay-sayer.

I tend to read a LOT of the stuff on these forums, and have read a LOT of posts, threads, and arguments people have had over the fate of this server and more closely the imminent release of the "savior and destroyer" 4.85. Many have asked you specifically, that if you don't like what's going on here so much, why you're still here. You, like many others, are here at Discovery because it is one of the best mods, and is the most highly populated server out there for a game that's been out for much longer than it was ever intended to be.

Yes, I realize that you are trying to make disco a better server, and the tirades that follow are because of that desire to see things made better. So is everyone else, admins included, who are putting in their time to try and make things like ship-balance, trade routes, and ID system better for people. Bias may or may not play a part in decisions, but i can tell you that nothing is done unilaterally, which seems to be the crux of many of your arguments.

[/off topic]

edit:
Point5: Didn't we stipulate that traders don't have specific ZoI, and can travel anywhere their affiliation (lawful/unlawful) takes them? within reason of course, but just because i switch from Republican to Universal doesn't mean I'm not still going to go to Rheinland. It just means that I'll have to watch more carefully where I spit my chewing gum.

Yes, if I switch from Republican to Universal, I will no longer be KoS to the Unioners, but I will still be able to be pirated by them, AND I'll have to deal with added suspicion from the RM because I'm no longer a House company, but a foreign corporate employee.

$.02

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