Roleplay and the use of cap ships.

[Laowai]

You haven't been in a pirate ship all alone with 3 bounty hunter battle cruisers firing on you as you undock from Yanagi have you?

Problem is ... these caps don't come after you alone ... they usually have other cap friends ... and bombers. So unless you have friends taking on a lone capship ... your example is mute.

I believe there was such in instance over Crete in Gamma last night - dock camping/killing is bad form and not allowed, tell an admin and i dare say they will do something about it - so while we are mooting arguments (which i wasnt aware of) i see your moot and raise you one :Punishing good indie Role Players in cap ships for rule infractions of others is not a solution - which is what limiting ships to factions would in effect be doing.

And i have always said and still maintain, that if caught it a situation where you are confronted with overwhelming force... which as you are saying consists of caps AND bombers.. quite a mix - be the better man and Role play that. If a rule is broken there are mechanisms in the server rules to have those players punished.
It has always boiled down to 1)respect and 2) Role play.

I show up all the time to fights that involve very few enemy fighters in a dreadnought, however, i do not usually enter said fight until such time as my colleague's specifically ask me... or the enemy has killed a few of my fighter/bomber flying team-mates and i decide enough is enough and put and end to it - and i RP while im sitting there. Now i know those one of two fighters have no chance againts me usually (though i do suck at pvp, i'm sure they could have a go) but there are these two issues at play here - 1: i respect their right to have a bit of fun before the thunderous battleship sends them off, ESPECIALLY if they are dog fighting with another player in a smaller ship, but then 2: Role Play kicks in - i role play with the guy in the smaller ship (again i have no excuse not to, im in a bloody dreadnought) and then get to a point where my character and his loyalties require me to get rid of/chase away the other player.
None of this is OORP, and i am not in a faction nor do i need to be to have this kind of attitude - i know for a fact there are other indie cap players who display similar tendencies.

Many players on this server, and not just cap ship players (but they tend to take the rap for it) do not show either respect for other players nor to they Role Play. However many do (including cap ship players though this is rarely recognised publicly) - and while i actually dispute the scale of "capwhoring" as a problem (there are far far far far more bombers on the server) even if it is the case, any solution that takes away the freedom of choice for responsible players to spite the bad ones, is a bad solution.

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[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

Yeah... I saw an Outcast Dred attacking everything in front of West Point a while back when no LPI's or SA's were on... Man... He sieged that whole system by himself.

By the way baltar...

Sigma 13 is CONSTANTLY. Plauged by pirates. Its about time some bounty hunters clean it up so we can powertrade again without annoying BDs...

[Xing]

fortunately we wont see any powertrading in the area with 85. good ridance, oorp excuse of players..

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[n00bl3t]

Here's a suggestion for capships ... why don't we say that capships are specifically limited to those ACTUALLY members of a legitimate player faction. For example ... in order to fly a Liberty Battle Cruiser ... you actually gotta be a member of LN. Maybe we can reduce the size of these non-role playing indies who don't quite understand that LN is actually in charge. Yes ... when LN tells you indies to stand down and stop shooting at someone ... you're actually supposed to stand down and stop shooting.

More role play and less blood lust.

EDIT: This is not specific to Liberty ... just using them as an example. You can substitute Order, Corsair, Rheinland, etc here and the point would be the same.

*Shakes head.*

You haven't been in a pirate ship all alone with 3 bounty hunter battle cruisers firing on you as you undock from Yanagi have you?

Problem is ... these caps don't come after you alone ... they usually have other cap friends ... and bombers. So unless you have friends taking on a lone capship ... your example is mute.

I have undocked from Malta, by myself, to 3 BH BC's. Does that count?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Baltar]

@ Laowai: You know nothing about me do you? Black.Pearl considers the most successful piracy one where no guns are fired and no CD's are needed. There have been MANY situations where I have role played to the kilt while being torn apart by these BH BC's ... and yet no words came across comm channels from these BH except, "Engaging Pirate." Glad I was able to provide my 2 cents ... even if they were not wanted.

If a rule is broken there are mechanisms in the server rules to have those players punished.

Yup ... which is what we're talking about here ... limiting caps (at least those above gunboats) to the factions. I mean ... in role play ... you'd have to BE in the Navy to have one of their battleships ... right? Where have you EVER seen a battleship that was not part of some country's navy? Does Bill Gates have his own battleship?

It has always boiled down to 1)respect and 2) Role play.

Yup ... still waiting for the respect. Continuing to fire on a vessel who attempts to flee or surrender and who begs for his life displays a lack of respect. Rules already require the looser (includes those who flee battle) to depart from the system and not re-engage for 4 hours. Why do you have to completely destroy the vessel? Role play has room for mercy and for allowing the looser to run with his/her tail between their legs.

To tell you the truth ... I RARELY if ever get involved in a fight. 99% of the time I'm fighting someone its because the other guy initiated it. I don't go looking for combat. With my pirate ... I'd rather have a good role play encounter where we exchange some dialogue. I am NOT the kind of pirate that would utter "15 mil or die" ... my encounters are more complex and more respectful to the trader.



As for freedom of choice for what people want to fly ... if that were only true. Here's a reality check. Go buy a Corsair ubercap without permission ... you'll end up KoS in a heartbeat. And the server rules require you have some role play behind your ship, equipment and ID. You cannot just mix and match and fly whatever you want.

Now ... if a player truly wants to fly a Liberty capship ... they should be required to follow orders of an LN player. LN are the rulers of Liberty space. All these indies running about have the potential of ruining role play and turning it into a PVP fest because they wanna fly whatever they want.

New guys with caps is very dangerous. Like trying to feed a newborn solid food ... doesn't work.

[Wes_Janson]

Well when it coems to crete or malta (or Manhat even) hostile faction caps should NEVER be there w/o actual RP reasons.

Rhinlandb war for example.

Simply 'raiding' an enemy base system casue you can is simply a bad idea, RP wise, and should be potently scantionable (the above mentioned outcast dready @ WP for example......)

[Baltar]

By the way baltar...

Sigma 13 is CONSTANTLY. Plauged by pirates. Its about time some bounty hunters clean it up so we can powertrade again without annoying BDs...

I was pirating (with Black.Pearl) in Sigma 13 LONG before all this mess began with these pirates you speak of and the uber-cap bounty hunters.

Trouble is ... bounty hunters have not made things better in Sig 13. With capships hanging out the way they do in Sig 13 ... they have ruined legitimate piracy role play. If they would hunt in gunships or bombers ... I'd respect hunters. But when they show up in mass with their capships ... sorry ... don't see the role play here. Traders being friendly with BD in BD space? Nope ... no role play for the trader either. You're complaining about the pesky BD pirates yet these traders fly through Chugoku ... HOME SYSTEM OF THE BD. Wake up.

[Baltar]

*Shakes head.*
I have undocked from Malta, by myself, to 3 BH BC's. Does that count?

Hmm ... congrats ... yes that counts.

*headdesk*

Now if you'd kindly scroll up you'll see that my comment regarding undocking to 3 BH BC's was directed at Laowai and NOT you. Glad you feel my pain ... but I seriously doubt Laowai has a clue.

[Tenacity]

so you want players such as myself, who have been here for over 6 months and are proven good roleplayers, to follow restrictions put in place simply because a few capwhores couldnt keep their tools in their pants when confronted by a lesser foe?

Harsh way of putting it, I know - but we shouldnt be restricting everyone for the actions of a few. Let those few get reported and banned or sanctioned when they slip up.

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[Jinx]

right now - it is frightening what additional rules we get in 4.85 .... mostly by making the IDs more precise, the terms of engagement etc. .... for someone who has "grown" with the community and the "ways things are done here" - thats no big deal.... for someone new, its simply overwhelming. ( and the sanction system makes no difference between a newbie and a veteran ( which is a curse and a blessing ))

more restrictions are not the way - more responsibility is, but responsibility is not dependent on the ship you fly, but on the way you interact with others. the way you roleplay *with* others and not against them. - that includes those that believe their idea of RP to be the golden path, while they are convinced that those that are moving into another direction are "misguided" ( or simply ooRP ).
it also involves those that do not show a sense of responsibility, that spoil the fun of others. - and lastly - there are those that LIKE their fun being spoiled, that seek out those that spoil it - so they can get upset ( some peole like getting upset so they can complain )

most situations can be dealt with in RP - and that included many rules that are broken, starting with ooRPness up to re-engagement etc. .... most of those violations don t actually need a sanction, but can be RPed so that the violater gets a very good idea about what wrong he has done.... if the "serious roleplayer" puts in some efford from his side, too. ( other than rule lawyering )


as for the capital ships: - a favourite topic indeed - but it cropped up less than in 4.83:). - capital ships will be both - more powerful .... and at the same time.... less powerful in 4.85. they will gain more acceptance ( hopefully ) with the new IDs - while at the same time gain rough guidelines about how they are meant to be used.

we HAVE the rules - and they are plenty and they are ENOUGH. - its up to the players to look after what we already have. - we have rules that prevent ooRPness ( the really blunt ooRPness ), so we don t need to complain about those that are really out of roleplay. - for those that are somewhat still "acceptable" we - the serious RPers ( that make such threads ) can most certainly RP through such an incident. ( or simply leave the places where its well known that there are many players around that are not so responsible about roleplay [ traders that don t give a damn about what route they use - or pirates that ask for rediculous amounts or pvp or hunters that are basicly like the pirates - just not asking for money before they attack ] )

whats left to say.... - i haven t been to sigma-13 at all ( other than passing through 2 or 3 times in the last months ) ... i haven t seen the vast ooRPness around, but i still had fun while being somewhere else but those "hotspots". - less frustration then.

but anyway - things change in 4.85. - its not gonne be heaven - but its gonne be different - at least untill the players defeat the system again and establish ooRP places again, which will most certainly happen one way or another.

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