' Wrote:Jynx did state that in gameplay terms it's different, but in RP, you have to pay and feed the crew, get more fuel for a bigger ship, etc. In roleplay, fighters and bombers are cheaper, otherwise the house military would just be flying big ships and not even worry about bombers and fighters.
EDIT: And I have to say, demanding small amounts does not necessarily mean you're RPing more. Do you want to get payed and eat? Well, you need to demand enough to do that, and make a profit, if you're pirating for money.
Good points all ... I'd add one other thing here. Since pirates pretty much "live" on their ships and hang out mostly on asteroids rather than planets ... they kinda need a ship that can also act as their home. Where's the toilet in a light fighter? I ain't wearin diapers. Not to mention that light fighters in the outback (Omicrons, Sigmas, Omegas, Taus) away from trade lanes requires something that ... ahem ... in role play ... has better range and effectiveness than a light fighter. In role play ... you ship's range (think fuel needed) is greater with the bigger ships.
' Wrote:Pirate Transport eats other transports for breakfast. For morning tea it snacks on Light Fighters whose pilots broke their strafe keys, and lunch consists of the odd VHF. Dinner would be the delectable Gunboats, all high and mighty and not noticing their powerplant drain/dps ratio. Supper might be a bomber that missed an afternoon SNAC.
Then please use these to pirate with instead of a Gunboat or a bomber.
' Wrote:And don't get me started on the Armored Transport. Its a light gunship for 2 mil, 3.5 if you count full kit. Eats fighters like you wouldn't believe, and can put the hurt on anyone that doesn't have dedicated shieldbusters
True, and has a cargo bay that's comparable to a GB. this would be another choise to use as a pirate or as a "poor man's" gunboat. Don't know if it would fit into RP though, but i would totally agree using this to pirate in.
' Wrote:Transports do a wicked amount of damage, and their gun firing arcs usually aren't as carefully adjusted as Gunboat ones are. They have shields almost as effective as GB shields (to fighters, anyway) and they have the weirdest hitboxes you'll ever see. Plus, if push comes to shove, they can mount capital ship armor upgrades and it takes no less than four CDs on average to hit a train once... and they're back at cruise after ten seconds.
ok, first off. wicked amount of damage? compare a civ transport turret 4 to a gunboat turret, or a civ trans 4 turet to a lvl 10 gun. secondly, firing arcs? i believe so far the mining ship(the one you can buy at honshu) has 8 guns firing in one arc at all sides. the firefly(3500 cargo) has only 4 guns avail at one time on any side, i know the armored trans. has 4 turrets and 2 regular guns for forward arc. and i believe 4-6 for all the other angles, don't the GB's have thier turrets all avail for at least 1 side. now lets take a look at GB "shield Gunboat Positron Shield shield recharg=2200 shield cap=140000 compared to the best trans shield shield recharge=900 shield cap=100000 hmm side by side trans shield regen rate less than 1%, GB shield recharge rate more than 16%. I have never seen a transport(who's main purpose is to haul to make profit) install a capital armor upgrade(which takes up around 300 cargo space or more) i don't know anything bout the train disruptor miss rate, as many times that i was hit with one, i couldn't verify this. once again don't know much bout the 10 second thing, usually for me, it's hit by disruptor, then gb eats me alive before my cruise starts up again.
' Wrote:The things are like turtles with laser turrets. They don't move very fast unless you run out of CDs, but with anything smaller than a VHF (or a Loki), you can't kill them before they've completed their route. Even dropping the shields gets messy for LFs- remember that they have dinky powerplants, using guns designed for VHFs
i should had made this clear in my earilier posts. i don't expect pirates to use LF to pirate, but then again i don't expect them to use a bomber or a GB.
' Wrote:GBs even have to watch their tread sometimes- energy is a real issue, unless you're kitted for anti-fighter... in which case have fun beating up something just as resilient as you are.
To be fair to transports, those bombers are a right pain, and their hullbusters will sometimes be able to drop your shields in time for a nice SNAC to the face. That's probably the toughest matchup, unless they have Inferno + SNAC; in which case you just run. Hardest part of being a transport pilot is "When do I run, when do I fight, when do I deal?" I have never had more trouble soloing with multiple opponents than with a transport; gunboats do plenty of burst damage to make fighters want to shield camp, and with missiles you can solo a fair score of untrained opponents. Fighters can just not joust and have a fair time, and bombers vs a pile of gunboats just means stay on your toes and hope they don't have missiles. Transports don't have burst damage, and they don't have missiles (thank God); they have decent dps that can knock out one guy.
i believe i covered this already with the comparison to shields and guns of the gb and the obvious Mucho dmg potential with a bomber(lets face it a bomber was for anti-capital defence, was it not?) but if you disagree, then lets talk some more about it.
' Wrote:Interesting considering all we ever see of lawfuls is juggernauts, battleships, battle cruisers, cruisers, destroyers, gunboats and bombers. Just be thankful pirates are not allowed to fly the big ships. Not to mention that lawfuls outnumber pirates.
I suppose you'd rather we fly LF's (that's Light Fighters) ... like the starflea? I fail to understand your argument. And Police ID's ARE found on gunboats. I've seen quite a few of em. But then ... the police don't normally deal with pirates. Pirates are usually dealt with by the navy or by bounty hunters. Those guys fly battle cruisers and such.
Look at it this way. If a pirate flew the equivalent of a liberator (LF) when he pirated ... the transport's guns would cut through him like a hot knife through butter. Pirates don't fight the police. Pirates hunt traders ... and many traders fly the Container Transport and such. The CT has 12 class 7 turrets. I've been in an HF attempting to pirate a CT. I didn't last long.
Pirates use what it takes to get the job done and what it take to survive the onslaught of capships out to kill them. I've argued that bounty hunters should be limited to gunboats ... I barely survived the forum backlash from those bounty hunters.
Sorry to come on so strong ... but these discussions are repeated nearly every two months. Pirates are the most battered group in the forums. Stick around a while and you'll see complaints about pirates usually come from traders that don't like being pirated. Pirates tend to avoid confrontations with the police and the military ... usually because the police and military outgun them.
Its a matter of survival and effectiveness. We're not looking to get into a fight with you.
for the first two parts about only good guys in mondo big ships. This answer was what i was looking for. with that said, i'll prolly drop the police character and build up a navy character. most likely, i'll just make another account and make him navy. thankyou for that insight mate. and no i do not expect you all to be in LF, it's basically all i ever see in new york is GB, bombers, and VHF, that's what i didn't understand
secondly.about the police and pirates issue? military usually deals with pirates? ok. even more reason to get a navy character. also about the CT i'm not advocating a LF or a HF, but i'm not understanding a GB or a bomber, that's all mate.
and finally about the fact on pirates being bereated constantly. If pirates would stick to the ransom rules, no problem. but what i usually get is a pirate who will ransom me, then tell me if i come back again with diamonds he'll kill me or make me drop my cargo. or i am told to where i can and cannot sell my cargo. these don't sound like pirates to me, these sound like political soldiers. I'm new i'm sorry if your group gets constantly attacked. i'm just a newb tryin to figure out disco's idea of RP mate.
' Wrote:I encourage you to hunt down any players named XA-First.Last
Those are our trainees, doing their 8 hour pre-flight. They'll be in a Hawk or a 'Blazer.
Feel free to enjoy their attempts to terrorize you.
That aside, I'm not sure at all what this thread is about. Is the OP annoyed that he's not beset upon more often by fighters of the non bomber persuasion? I know our XA groups generally cap out at two bombers and fill up thereafter with fighters to handle the increasing predilection of the local law to fly fighters and bounty hunters ignoring caps so they can qualify for payout on bounty boards.
But for a single pilot, chasing your 100k transport down in an Griffin with widows doesn't sound like a constructive way to spend an afternoon. Have enough trouble taking care of unruly charges with a bomber before they can dock.
no mate, this thread is gettin a lil outta off topic(imho) basically i was amazed that when i played a police character, all i ever saw pirate players flying were either GB, Bombers, or VHF. and the fact only thing i ever was pirated in when i'm in a transport is GB's or a VHF And a Bomber. or was it 2 VHF. i can't remember. i usually pay the ransom.
' Wrote:Light fighters are really only good for two things in combat: Killing VHFs/bombers (which is often slow going, unless the LF makes good use of missiles and shield busters), and carrying around a CD launcher so their VHF/bomber friends can mount mini-razors or Supernovas and kill things faster.
LFs couldn't even effectively solo-pirate a freighter, much less a transport. I have heard of it happening, but that's only when the transport pilot decides to play along.
totally agree, if i was a pirate i wouldn't pirate in a lf. but then again i'll not play a pirate.
Quote:i should had made this clear in my earilier posts. i don't expect pirates to use LF to pirate, but then again i don't expect them to use a bomber or a GB.
Which leaves...VHFs or transports.
A VHF still takes a while to destroy a Transport. Bombers and Gunboats are used for piracy because they have the firepower needed to enforce making a trader stop. You may think its overkill, but its quite simply what is needed in many situations.
' Wrote:Wel, I pirate quite successfully in my Greyhound Heavy Fighter. But if traders won't stop for a Gunboat, why are they gonna stop for a HF or a LF? That's what the mentality is all about. And it doesn't matter if you're flying a Rogue Gunboat or a Hyena Light Fighter, the lawful cap ships will mob you all the same. Difference is, you have more chance of fighting off the lawfuls, hence the pirates' need for Bombers and Gunboats.
never have i heard pirates trying to fight navy patrols. mayby i'm not understanding where your gettin your idea for the RP, i get mine from what pirates mean historically, and the fact there in it for the quik money. you don't get ransom from a navy vessel. . . do ya?
' Wrote:I generally pirate in a Lane Hacker Gunship. Why? Because I like flying it?... Well, yes, but there's more. Its so I can dish out the damage necessary to drop a transport's shield while dodging fire from the local battle cruiser sporting nothing but Solaris turrets and manage to get my money or take that transport out and survive.
... That's a true story, too. I was pirating a Mammoth or BW Transport, I don't remember, when a Liberty BC showed up... Finished the guy off (he wasn't paying) while being firing on. Then cruised outta there.
Edit; I think if I had more time to pirate, I would fly a Pirate Transport...
pls explain how this fits in with a pirates RP. mayby i'm not understanding. pirates are supposed to be the bad guys, they're supposed to get money via quik street, pirates(from what i thought)make it a general rule not to engage navy personnel because there is no profit in it.(RP wise you kill a navy BC then your gonna have navy ships gunnin for ya. something a pirate doesn't want)
' Wrote:I started out pirating in HF's and VHF's when I first started here. They don't work well. The usual scenario is I demand tribute ... they see what I'm flying and respond with "lolz" or maybe "you're kidding right?" Then the fly off laughing. Ok ... so the next time I find them I've upgraded to a gunboat and suddenly they take me seriously.
@ Baconsoda: True pirating in a gunboat is a bit slow and time consuming. But I enjoy chasing the reluctant trader down. I love to see the looks on their faces when I show up 5 or 6 systems later and cut them off before they get to their destination. Yeah ... the docking ring in sight ... and they're toast. Piracy for me involves patience. The stubborn traders that continually run get my attention more often than those that are willing to play along. I mean really ... is 500k too much to ask when you make 10 times that on a single run?
And I like to fly the Rogue GB ... why ... because its the only ship in all of Disco that actually looks like a pirate vessel.
i gota make a navy char now, get him into a good VHF, then look around and duel some high end transports i gots to see if this is true.
' Wrote:@ Virus: I had a similar experience. I was pirating a CT when a Battlestar (BSG tagged) came along ... in the Honshu system. I maintained constant fire on the CT while keeping the CT physically between myself and the guns on the Battlestar. The Battlestar had to keep his guns silent to avoid hitting the CT. I lost shields multiple times and was running low on bats/bots when I finally was able to whittle the CT into nothing. And I broke to cruise with the CT's remnants before the Battlestar could deal a final blow. I had about 2 or 3 blocks of hull remaining ... but I got my target.
like i said to virus. Is this Pirate RP, is this the way pirates in disco think? if so, then there is nothing more to say. it's a game and i'll adapt.
Quote:i gota make a navy char now, get him into a good VHF, then look around and duel some high end transports i gots to see if this is true.
Remember, no Mini/Inferno or torpedoes. Pirates need that CD to stop traders.
For your other points, yes pirates do have the resources for gunboats. And while many pirates try to avoid entanglements with police/navy patrols, the lawfuls will inevitably come to the pirates.
' Wrote:You forget, sometimes, that there is more to pirating than money. Most of my characters have more on their mind than money. In fact, only one of my pirates thinks about money as his primary concern. When I go outside, I want to see more than just money bags floating around, I want to see my enemy, so I can smite them and their big transport ship.
Of course I am patient, that is the name of the game with pirating, however, I like to get my target. I like to see them want to drop their cargo because they can't kill me or escape me, especially when they didn't talk one bit. Call me sadistic, but pirating is the only time when I want to win. Normal fights, go ahead, kill me, I don't care. My internet is too slow for me to be a great fighter anyway, but in when I pirate, watch your buttocks, because I'm out to win, buddy, and I don't really care how much money you're losing, because I'm either a pirate or a terrorist, and either way, you're mine. :sleep:
EDIT:
I do believe that someone has yet to answer what might've been a rhetorical question on your part. Well, basically, they're anyone who demands something of monetary value from someone else, be them Traders, Miners, Police, Freelancers, Mercenaries, or whatever else you want to throw in there. Though most people would say "If you want something other than money, you aren't a pirate." they might find themselves quite mistaken.
Look for example at the Landwirtrechtbewegung. We pirate, yes, but do we want to? Heavens, no, we don't. In all honesty, if not for the Rheichstag branding us as outlaws, we'd probably be helping those Rheinlanders. If not for the Rheichstag branding us outlaws, we'd probably be part the Rheinland Military. Hard to believe that we don't want to pirate, huh?
What about the Farmer's Alliance? I know you've run into us before. We don't want money at all. All the money we need is given to us by Samura. We just want Kusari to be left to the Kusari. Do we really want to take people's cargo? Not really, but we are forced to in order to get our point across.
Pirates don't always want money as their sole goal, but sometimes, they do need it, and so they have to stoop to low actions to get it. Is that their fault? I don't like to think so, but surely, they are still not simply greed-ridden filth-bags.
mate, i hope you get that terrorist ID. unless i misread the rules, i thik you guys have that RP on the nose. pirate RP. . .well we already had some private convo's so you already know what i would say there;)
' Wrote:my pirate ( clover ) is flying a bomber. - why? - cause it is the most efficient ships for piracy.
- it is cheap
- it is small
- it is probably cheaper and easier to maintain than a gunboat
- it packs the punch to take down a transport without too much pain
and
- transports FEAR a bomber
i have tried flying a VHF - and when i was flying a VHF, some transports entered some sort of sportive attitude before RP. they were not at all intimidated by the fighter ( some with good reason, cause i somewhat tried without success to take them down when they denied to pay ).
so thats when i changed back to a bomber. - the supernova is not very balanced.. but its a fearsome weapon. - and every transport captain knows that it won t take more than 2 shots to destroy ANY transport, no matter of its armour - and it requires hardly any skill to hit with it.
thats all points that speak for the bomberclass.
a gunboat can do the same - but is not as cost efficient as a bomber ( in RP ... in reality, its cheaper cause you won t have repair costs every now and then, due to the much stronger shields )
VHF do well - in packs, but not when you re a lone pirate.... light fighters are a challenge, but impractical - only when you seek a david vs. goliath fight.
i'm not gonna even say a thing. i believe you have said everything i been thinking all along.
' Wrote:I was wondering about somewhat the same thing today, only in real life. I couldn't figure out why bandits trying to rob a heavy fortified van transporting valuables always use cars, heavy vans or even trucks. Why can't they just use a bicycle instead?
/sarcasm
Come on seriously? Usually you pirate in groups of 4 max. 4 lf's are barely able to do damage, let alone survive defensive fire.
you had posted after i said i wan't advocating pirating in lf's what up mate?
