I didn't even bother reading everything, but conserning the directive from Xoria, for every Order member interested, let me know and I'll add you to the Order general Skype chat. It has both Bs| and indies and we all talk together about issues and hostiles in order space and role play etc.
' Wrote:Now, everyone who isnt an order player, and everyone who these changes doesnt effect, needs to get out of the thread. You're causing unnecessary drama and flames, this thread would probably only be three pages long if you folks hadnt hit the post button. Hold off, and wait for an admin reply to this mess.
As much as you might not like it, this affects everyone on the server whether they play as Order or not. If this 'command council' nonsense is allowed to continue, then pretty soon other player factions will demand the right to dictate the RP of people who are not members of their faction.
No longer active online due to a dwindling amount of non-PvP (trading, pirating, mining, etc.) fun in the new version.
' Wrote:As much as you might not like it, this affects everyone on the server whether they play as Order or not. If this 'command council' nonsense is allowed to continue, then pretty soon other player factions will demand the right to dictate the RP of people who are not members of their faction.
that's already happened, we wouldn't be the first.
RM dictates cap ships
zoners and junkers have similar councils, I just don't know how much power those hold.
Posts: 2,122
Threads: 244
Joined: Oct 2007
Staff roles:
' Wrote:that's already happened, we wouldn't be the first.
RM dictates cap ships
zoners and junkers have similar councils, I just don't know how much power those hold.
' Wrote:I will not easily agree to allowing any individual player or player faction group to impose their definitions or conceptions on anyone else who disagrees with them and back that up with gunfire. This has been tried here in various forms... We may be stuck with some of them, but that is no reason to bend over and grab our ankles when more try to muscle their way in.
What any other faction does is not sufficient justification for carte blanche permission for BS| or any other faction to do the same thing.
This post will largely be philosophical, so if it makes your head spin, then you shouldn't attempt to draw any rough conclusions from it. I am talking about the nature of power structures, and Disco is merely an example of a power structure.
You see, this is the real truth about Power in the world that few people ever realize : whatever power you wield rarely originates with you, but instead is delegated to you by some other source. In the case of Disco, all power originates from the Administration, because the Administration has the exclusive ability to decide what is allowed and what is prohibited by virtue of possessing the only means of enforcing those decisions (banning and punishing those who flout those decisions). Factions possess zero power inherently, and only wield the power that is granted to them by the Administration which permits their activities to proceed without interference. The same is true of individual players as well. No faction is entitled to any privileges or rights whatsoever. They are granted by the Administration as it sees fit. Look at system ownership. Who grants possession of systems? The Administration does according to the rules it established. Factions have no inherent right to system ownership, nor can a faction do anything to claim ownership without the Administration's approval. Factions and individual players derive their power on the server from the enforcement power of the decisions regarding gameplay made by the Administration just like your arms and legs derive their power of movement from the decisions made by your brain.
Does BS| even have power on the server to blow up those who disagree with it? Not if the Administration decides it doesn't, by virtue of the fact that if every BS| ship is in Bastille, they won't be blowing up anyone except each other. The power to conduct PvP is in fact a privilege granted by the Administration, and removed when it is used contrary to the Administration's decisions.
So it really doesn't matter what RM does, when it comes to what BS| or any other faction can do. They are not inherently entitled to their version of a fascist dictatorship, but they are allowed it. Neither BS| nor any other faction is entitled to it either, and it is the exclusive decision of the Administration as to whether it ever wields it to any degree.
So in other words, "Look what he did" is irrelevant to whether or not you will be allowed to do the same thing. That's simply the way the world operates.
Check out my Trade Development Blog
for all the latest news on Nerfs and Final Nails, or to request trade changes.
Xoria- I see what you're saying. Basically what I got from it is that factions need to earn their right to make decisions? Comparable as you said with system ownership, a faction needs to show they can run it accordingly and such. And that RM example and what not was just to show whever I quoted that we're not the only ones with restrictions etc.
' Wrote:Y'know, I didnt even know I was a part of this 'council' until today, when I logged on and was told "oh, by the way, you're helping us run things now"...
And you didn't see ANYTHING wrong with that? Not a single bell went off, a individual whistle.
I've played as order. I've seen what the Bs| say in Omicron Minor. Their general attitude is one of superority and dominance. They put me off six ways from sunday because their "Military Structure" is modeled off of the Dross that is the US Army. I've always viewed the order more of a US Marine Corps kind of Organization myself. The difference is in personal inititive. A United States Army Soldier cannot do whatever he feels is nessessary, he does what he is told. A United States Marine does what he is told, but if he runs into a situation where what he was told won't work, he drops what he was told and does what needs to be done. No big deal as long as the Bs isn't above me. I might accept them more if they dumped "The Black Squadron" and called themselves something like "The Order". Personal names are the signs of a Multi-Game Faction(which Wolfie has already said the Bs| is.)
Those shouldn't dictate roleplay ever. They should hold themselves to a higher standard of preformance, which in Disco means stellar RP, but they shouldn't be policing anyone outside themselves.
Let me repeat what I just said, because it is core to my next point.
They shouldn't be policing anyone outside themselves.
I like the Idea of a Faction for the order that is in theory making policy. Similar to how the Corsairs do it, or the zoners do it, or the Junkers do it.
What I don't like is "Reserved seats".
The BS gets two seats on the council, with the Bs working as the Figurehead?
Yes, THAT'S smart. That shows you aren't "out to grab power" and that you are just "doing what someone should have done long ago."
Statements reguarding how benevolent your tyranny will be ring hollow in my ears. I KNOW tyranny. i've studied it, I've made it a point to learn it. Only those who refuse power can be trusted to make a body that gives power. Those who have to live under it.
As such, I propose the following changes to it's structure:
Composed of 8 people, lead by an Independant. The Initial body of the council will be made up of people submitted for vote and chosen by an order Majority. An individual faction may not ever hold more than two seats on the council. Vacancies are filled by submitted names (not their own) from non-faction Order others(though they can propose a factioned member), and then voted on by the Council. Majority vote sits the person on the council.
This gives the Bs| only 1/4th the total vote. This makes it an "Order" group. And more importantly, there are ways for those who don't share Bs| opinions of "good RP" to get a seat on the council. I'm not saying the Bs| version of RP is bad, I AM saying it isn't their place as a multi-game faction to police Discovery. They have no vested interest, and therefore no right!
I don't think people realize that this IS NOT a faction v. Indie thing.
Right now we just had a great discussion about sirius politics in the order general chat, and we discussed how this council can be changed, and I left a message to wolf with a good new suggestion.
Remora, even though what you said makes sence, it sounded like you purposely wanted Bs| to be a huge minority. This council is for the order in general, for the greater good, there is not reason why Bs| and indies should vote on matters differently,
again, to everyone
this IS NOT A FACTION V. INDIE argument.
I think that's what people don't seem to get, Bs| gets along great with alot of indies and I worked hard to get that to be so :/
Posts: 2,122
Threads: 244
Joined: Oct 2007
Staff roles:
' Wrote:kindred- see now there's no rp in that at all.
What you actually mean is, there is no fictional backstory for it. But there doesn't have to be. There is no fictional backstory for virtually any of the engagements that take place on the server, except for the planned events.
He will no doubt play the role of an Osiris commanded by an Order officer and crew attacking whomever in Liberty he decides to attack. That -is- roleplaying, it just may not be roleplaying that some people like. And if it is roleplaying that is not permitted by the Administration (such as attacking trader transports with his Osiris) then he will get in trouble for it if its reported.
The corsair fleet that invaded New York yesterday never said a word and I doubt posted any backstory, but they were roleplaying rampaging corsairs who flew up to New York to create mayhem. I and a few friends roleplayed Liberty's brave defenders (The Lane Hackers) and sent them back to Crete in body bags.
A significant part of the problem in these matters is the careless use of language that people employ by making the jargon 'rp' a catch-all term for things that have absolutely nothing to do with roleplaying at all. Biography is biography. Story is story. Roleplaying is roleplaying. They are separate concepts, separate words, and they are not all interchangeable. What they all are, is subjective, and the Administration (and/or whomever it delegates power to) is the only entity on this server empowered to decide in any meaningful and consequential way what is poor roleplaying and what is good roleplaying.
Check out my Trade Development Blog
for all the latest news on Nerfs and Final Nails, or to request trade changes.
true, although I think a major issue with Discovery is that the game still runs on the vanilla sp basis, yet Disco takes place many years after that and things change, and some of these things are not reflected in-game, the order-liberty relations being one of them.
![[Image: Cg7QQEd.png]](http://i.imgur.com/Cg7QQEd.png)
![[Image: 14jn684.jpg]](http://i44.tinypic.com/14jn684.jpg)
