Perhaps you're just too used to your total military command, and can't live with people questioning you?
All I'm suggesting is making your council open to all Order characters, where all can elect their representatives, rather than just those of the Bs and those who work directly with them.
what you can do ... before cursing the entire idea ... is to give it a try. - a true trial period of maybe one month - and after that one month - you can try to collect the positive experience from such a council - as well as the negative impressions.
i know - it is harder to loose something that appears to be established, but when you agree that you ( and that means everyone ) give it a one month trial - after which the council ends automaticly - UNLESS it turns out to be causing something beneficial for the order AND the players of the order ( again - including every order IDed RPer ) - then you can still decide to keep it going.
so far - it has not been decided what kinds of decision are being made in such an order council anyway. - it has also not been mentioned what "sanctions" one must suffer for not following - if any anyway.
when we look over to the council of the zoners - something comes to mind.
i once read that an indicator of a good democracy where everyone is given the right to participate is .... when the vocal organs to voice ones opinion ( like the parlament or other representative institutions ) are mostly abandoned and empty. - in such systems it is hard to even find someone to be a chairman. while in a dictatorship - such things like a representative parlament ( which is utterly useless there ) is usually full with participants - and the political interest is MUCH greater than in democracies.
last time the zoner council needed a chairman - no one wanted to be the leader of that council. - no one was interested - until mal stepped in again and agreed to keep going. -
once the order council is "established" after it turns out to be a beneficial institution - you might rather suffer the same "problem" than the other way round. - i daresay you d rather have to force people to activly participate than to be overwhelmed by interested players who all want to voice their opinion.
and if one is not voted to be a representative in the council - do what every good demoracy does with their representatives .... blame them when something does match 100% with your opinion:).
... but really...
i d suggest to give it a trial period. - no one can tell if its detrimental or beneficial without trying.
Jeez Jinx, way to derail the lol train. Though to counter one of your points a few decisions have been handed down already by the partial council. Putting a halt to that, hitting the big 'ol reset button and having a bit of a discussion amongst peers might circumvent. Without shooting everyone.
Also, Wolfpack, I was just reading your posts and found myself wondering if you a certified instructor of martial arts?
Edit: Oh wait I just read the post.
Double edit: Capslock is not cruise control for cool.
So your story would include mention of this council and that is supposed change people minds?
I thought you didn't want anything to do with this anymore since the people were against the idea.
Don't get me wrong if there was a council you are probably one who deserves to be on it but it just goes to show how tempting it is to be the one to help guide others to do what we think is right... I love the smell of power in the morning.
Surely if this is not a indy V's faction thing then an independent as the leader of the council or even BS| being in the minority is not such a bad idea.
You are just one wing in a much bigger faction, you have your own leadership as other wings have there own leadership to order them.
A ruler off a faction should never be a player unless there is a serious vote among the whole disco community, even then it is just a popularity contest and not the best person for the job.
When the one chooses himself he is an even worse candidate.
For the whole time I have been here I have wanted to have an Order character however I have heard stories in game and seen how you have treated anyone that tried to make their own Order Faction on the forums.
If you make it we will civil war you out of existence with our superior member list, of course it is weird that that's one of the few times that your members will actually bother logging on that character.
About the sanctions you can't be surprised it happened when there was months of warnings by Admin not to try and control others RP, but yet you get into trouble for doing just that and even drag an independent along since he thinks he has to listen by what you guys have posted on the forums.
How to fix this? Wolfpack comes back and gets permission to form a council that can talk to others and help guide them, except of course he takes that to mean he can force his views on others just how the Admin have told everyone not to do.
When he is chastised for using their names for something they did not authorise he lets it be know that if you do not follow his orders now you will be punished later if the admin do ever give in and make it ok,
Hmm seems weird that you can get PVP whored later for doing something you are allowed to do now, just shows the mentality of the ones we're dealing with I suppose.
The council is a bad idea because it is designed to give powers to a couple of people to dictate RP to others, now I know that you are saying it is only the New York thing.
Well then why have a council and not just a simple mandate unless you are keeping this little BS| owns you thing for when other ideas need to be forced onto others.
' Wrote:I could pass the same question to you just as easily.
1) is n00blet a Order character, if so, where's the role play? (i'm talking about biography, role play on forums, cause I haven't seen anything...)
2) What kind, if any, leadership skills do they posess? Persistance? Perseverance? No-Bullsh*t attitude?
I could go on. I've been through this so many times it's not funny and this is the oldest, yet still the most CHILDISH arguement i have ever had to deal with.
And before any of you ask, I *AM* a Certified Instructor in the martial arts. We teach leadership and life skills. While I know i do tend to go out of control at times, I do try to restrain my actions and leadership. But since that is not a possiblity here, I could venture to say no one but the admins have any right to lead.
My justification for calling you a bad leader is because of one simple fact.
1) You are not stepping down, dispite the fact that it is clear that it is a major problem with organizing this "thing" that you want.
If you wanted it for its own sake, you would let it grow.
To answer your bullets
1) I am only taking his word that he has one.
2) He possesses a reasoned attitude
To tell you the truth, it could be ANYONE else. I picked Noobl3t because, assuming he has an order character, the chances are he is going to be a better leader than you.
Martial arts instructor status does not convey leadership ability. Martial arts do teach self disipline and respect, but they don't teach the inherent qualities that make a good leader. A Good leader is first and foremost a good follower. A good leader takes inititive and does what is needed when it is needed. A good leader would not let the fact that others don't think they should be a leader from stopping the task from being complete, even if it means they aren't reconized as a leader. A good leader always leads, first and foremost, by example. You don't want to be a leader in this, because you can't be. You will be a Dictator. Someone who dictactes orders. Not a leader. This is my problem with the whole setup. If it is needed, why must the Bs| take a prominant position in it? Why isn't your position one that requires your voice be the council's voice? Why aren't you content to be among the voices of the council? Why can't you be part of the Choiar?
I do not question the Bs|.
What I DO question is You, Your Motives, and your intent. You arrive on the heels of a controversy of the Black Squadron again dictating RP to others, which has appearently been a problem of the past, and immediatly set out to get the whole process of giving them the power to do so without sanctions.
This bothers me as a new player of Discovery. You are arguing with a newbie, but my statements here are dead serious. Why? Why must you lead? If it is needed, place it and step aside. Abandon creative control. Don't try to be a tyrant. Step aside, let the Community that has had to live with this decide who leads and who is a member of it.
' Wrote:...
If i wanted to, I'd just disband them. Yes, I do have that power to do so. I always did. I choose not to use that power, and let the faction admin itself, which apparently has not worked out as well as I had hoped after DBoy left. I returned to kick it into shape, not control it.
...
Your threats of disbanding the Bs| over this subject are now Point 2 of why I think you would be a bad leader. You try to use a threat to get your way. A good leader does not need threats.
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