Are there too many Atrains?

[cmfalconer]

I predict an average player count under 100 within 2 months

If those 100 players are the solid RP'ers, and not the ones looking for the big battleboats, then huzzah! I'm all for it.

This is a discussion targeted at those that don't even come to these forums for the most part. Kind of like Gran Torino is a movie targeted at people who would never watch the movie. [/offtopic]

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[Quorg]

And if that 100 keeps dwindling down because everyone's too poor to fund good RP characters... then what?
Sure, it seems like anyone with a Bowex, Gateway, or Republican ID will be able to fly a high-capacity ship, but is that really the end goal? Of course not.
Even with more possible routes, being forced to pick a company will be extremely limiting, since not all companies are active in all systems.
And as varied as they are, there is always going to be one route that is more profitable than the others in terms of credits-per-minute. Traders will just flock to whichever company allows them to trade that route.

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ATTENTION SMUGGLERS
The Midnight Express: A Slaver <strike>who doesn't completely realize what he's doing.</strike> (video)

Quorg, you're officially a moron.

...mongs like Quorg being like a malignant little cancer...

Way to be useless, Quorg.

[cmfalconer]

I do believe, however, that there are several companies, at least one in each house, that pretty much go ANYWHERE.

Fire and Brimstone is not raining down. 3200 cargo @ say 1000 profit per unit is still 3.2 million...Gimme a break about not being able to fund your characters. You could fund your character in a Transport if you had to, it'll just take you a couple more trips. If your character's not worth the extra hour or so it'll take to get that money, maybe it's not worth it at all?

Yes, I understand the limitations of playtime. I get on about 3-4 hours a week, if that, and usually about an hour of that is trading. Right now, my trader's in a CSV, RPing being fired from Universal and having to start again.

I've also got a new Bounty Hunter, who started from scratch too. He's up to a kitted StarBlazer in like 6hr of gameplay.

Don't tell me you can't fund your characters. Maybe not a battleship w/o some help...

And you don't HAVE TO pick a company. Fire off that Independant Trader ID, pick up a house Transport (they're all under 3200 cargo) or a Large Transport or a Train, and trade away.

as for credits per minute...that's their choice. huzzah for whichever company that is. and huzzah for all the pirates that will be moving out of Sig13 and into wherever that is. You don't have to always be where you're making the most money. Phate seems to be doing pretty well between Liberty and Bretonia.

poorhouse indeed.

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[Varyag]

Relax guys, just because the diamond run won't be there to mob doesn't mean that trading will be worthless. I trade with a BW Transport and make a ton. More then enough to buy new ships and develope new characters in my unlawfulls and it is a outcast tagged and id'd transport.

I am pretty sure there will be profitable runs that are worth your time. My cap fleet hasn't been hurt one bit by not using an advanced train.

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[Skoorb]

I use the A.Train and go trade where and what looks like the most fun at that time. I will smuggle in it, which has lead to some great in game and forum RP. This was one of my favorites.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29165

As i see it you are punishing a lot of peole who like to roleplay as an independant trader. Sure i use the advanced train, i think it is perfect. High payloads, but highly vulnerable. Plus i can go look for the fun in game, not forced to run the same boring run over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

You want everyone to fall into your mold of what you think is fair and what traders should and shouldn't do. I personally think the more open you leave it the more oppurtunities you leave for me/us to use our imagination and have fun.

I am all for the diversity of the IDs and giving players the choice to participate if they so choose. Forcing them to do so by limitting the ships the independent minded people can fly to the lower cargo ships seems wrong to me. Let the independent traders fly the advanced train.

Always thought the magic of RP was that the players get to use their imagination to create a divers world. Not that everyone follows specific cookie cutter roles, just my opinion.

I am 1000% against punishing the traders who do RP as independants and try to add to the RP of the server.

Only time will tell if it is good for the server overall. I am one of those who likely will not be around if the restrictions are too limitting.

[me_b_kevin]

found this...thought it was funny....look at the name of the ship :D

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Mon'Star the Red- Rated "R" : http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3224
Aboard the Necrosis- Rated "E": http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3313

[Rogue63]

I have mixed feelings on placing limits on trading ships via the use of ID's. I agree with the "truck" mode of thinking, because thats what traders are. Some of the nicest rigs are privately owned ones. Corporations from my experience dont necessarily go all out in equipment procurement, it is all about corporate profits. We are talking about roleplay here, but we use real life as a vague guideline in this game. What I am getting is a corporation has option of using 2 older transports with 3k capacity versus 1 5k newer decked out transport, I am thinking they will use the 2 older ones till it is not practical to do so. On the other hand a private operator with good financial backing will do what is necessary for his business, since his life may depend on it. I just hope when new rules are implemented they are FULLY thought out , not just a band-aid approach to fix the current "hot-topic" issue. For the record I am not in favor of limitations on trade ship procurement by players. I do agree if you are a smuggler you should not use a A-train, but some smaller type of ship. Also I am in favor of standardizing the top level trade ships to near identical stats for cargo, so other ships will be used. The Tanker is a good ship, dont see many used, bump up to 5k and maybe it will be. This is a good mod, but let's be careful on the rules. As for original question of to many A-Trains.....no I dont think so, it is to be expected since it the biggest.

[cmfalconer]

@Dreygon: :lol:

Rogue raises some good points, but I don't agree with the analogy that Adv. Trains are today's tractor-trailer semi's.

Adv. Trains should be more considered the locomotives of Sirius instead of the semi. Trains (modern, not Freelancer) haul more cargo, aren't nearly as maneuverable (darn tracks) and are built heavy-duty to haul all that merchandise.

Transports (and the double-pup Large Transport) are there to haul the smaller loads. Heck, they use the same cargo containers...intermodal transportation. Transports are smaller, more agile, and can go place that a Adv. Train can't (well, shouldn't) go...outside the tradelanes.

That analogy being said, there aren't a lot of independent locomotive drivers out there...but there are a lot of independent truckers.

Oh yeah, and what Varyag said.

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[RedlineInc]

If those 100 players are the solid RP'ers, and not the ones looking for the big battleboats, then huzzah! I'm all for it. [/offtopic]

That's just it, they won't be. This is, in no way, going to increase RP. If that's the aim, it's ludicrous.
The true roleplayers don't need guidance. I could care less about the profits. If I did I WOULD fly an Atrain, but I don't. I fly the Large Train because it's appropriate to my RP. I'm not arguing because of what I might lose money-wise. That's meaningless. Like you said, I can always make more, and I have no desire to fly a capship.
I just resent that traders, as usual, are the primary focus of limitations due to the the misguided perception that
"something's going on" that needs to be nerfed. Why is worrying about what traders are doing always among the first thing that non-traders want to fool with? What's the deal with that?

Well, I can tell you. Human nature dictates that they believe we're going to have or get something that they can't have or get because they can't stand the "tedium" of trading. "I can't or won't do it, so it's a resource that others have which I do not. Therefore, limit it because a resource that others use but i can't use is a bad thing."

You might as well say no one but faction leaders may fly capships and all factions are limited to a max of 4 capships of any type. I could care less about capships. Let's enact that rule! What type of cacophony would arise from a rule like that? And how is this really any different?

Roleplayers roleplay, no matter what the rules. What ship they have is meaningless unless you're worried about how much money they have. Can't you just admit that this is what you're all REALLY worried about?
Non-roleplayers won't roleplay, no matter what the rules. You can't make them. This rule will not affect that. OK, it will change what ship thay can fly while not roleplaying. So this rule is about punishment for not roleplaying then, is it? Vanilla faction roleplaying is more important than everything now? And so long as you're roleplaying a vanilla faction it's OK to be rich while everyone else can go pound sand?

This is so typical, and sad. the worst of human nature claims yet another server. I can't have it so neither can you. Dang, someone might have some fun outside of the proscribed lines!! Limitations are never anything but limitations, and if a group is hit with them arbitrarily, which I believe this is, they only cause rancor.

[Varyag]

There are rules like the ones for transports for caps. How many mercs and freelancers do you see with battle ships? They used to be able to have them. Just like every other cap, the large transports are going to need the appropriate ID. Want a battleship? get the tag and ID. Want a train? Get the tag and ID. Noone is saying that only factioned players can use them. Just players with corp ids that anyone can get in just a few min.

Get your ID then powertrade away to your hearts content. Evidently there are going to be good routes for every ID when the new mods comes out. Trading won't go away.

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"