Carriers in space should be heavily armed, albeit defensively.
They are perhaps one of the most important ships in a fleet - lose it, and the fighter support is almost completely lost.
Space is a lot more dangerous than naval warfare.
And fighters are a lot more important.
The problem really lies where the Carrier is used as an attack ship and doesn't RP and defend itself.
If they have heaps of bb, heaps of armor, but not that good weapons... (about the same firepower as a light-medium cruiser,) It would probably still be more powerful than your average battleship.
' Wrote:Carriers in space should be heavily armed, albeit defensively.
They are perhaps one of the most important ships in a fleet - lose it, and the fighter support is almost completely lost.
Space is a lot more dangerous than naval warfare.
And fighters are a lot more important.
The problem really lies where the Carrier is used as an attack ship and doesn't RP and defend itself.
But I maintain that they should be rather armed.
the carrier, you know giant boat with a flight deck...in all reality should not have 16 battleship guns. if anything it should have GB guns. or guns similar to. again it is not made for direct ship to ship combat. it is meant to call the shots from the side lines. other ships deal with whatever decides to come into its range.
' Wrote:Oh, and to add, why the hell dont we just re-name the carriers so we can be done with this discussion?
Rename the order carrier to "Order Heavy Battlecruiser", the Aquilon to "Zoner/IMG Light Battleship", and the liberty carrier to "Liberty heavy dreadnaught", then we can finally be done with this stupid argument.
This is a valid option really. If people aren't willing to adapt to the mold given to them, change the mold.
Quote:Maybe you'd like to suggest to the devs how to raise the server cap to 2000 players so we can do this
The numbers are an exaggeration, but why would there be a carrier with out any kind of fighter support?
Quote:it is not currently possible to launch NPC fighters/bombers
You don't need to have them launched, you can have 2 or 3 players run with them alongside or something when you are flying would be a proper Roleplay scenario
If they have heaps of bb, heaps of armor, but not that good weapons... (about the same firepower as a light-medium cruiser,) It would probably still be more powerful than your average battleship.
I'd also say cut the speed.
they actually have about the firepower of an ant on roids. they are armed with small fast rotating guns (very few) and 2 phalanx anti missile chain guns, which cannot be pointed at other ships.
i dunno bout cutting the speed. in real life the carrier is actually the fastest in the battle group. but most don't know that because their speed is technically classified
Quote:everyone is aware that they cant make the carrier launch ships. he is just saying nerf their cap ship killing ability pretty much. carriers in all reality, absolutely cannot kill a warship that is made for killing other ships. it is a specialized class of ship not made for head to head combat, it is a glorified command chair. that is why among its fighters it also is supported by things like battleships, cruisers, and frigates.
Unless you want to give the carriers 3000m/s cannons with 2k range so we can deal with fighter and bomber whores, the only thing you'll be accomplishing is pissing off anyone that actually flies these ships.
Guess what, this isnt battleship, we're not fighting on open seas, this is a sci-fi game and it doesnt have to bend to your self-serving reality, mmkay? I'm getting fricking tired of people trying to undo all the work I did to make the Order LAC a competent ship in the first place.
Quote:and the OLC can whack an osiris. ive seen it happen.
Was it an AA-built Osiris? All Solaris?
Or was the Osiris player just afk?
It is numerically impossible for a single LAC to kill a single battleship, assuming both have full bats/bots and proper loadout.
Quote:so. a carrier should be nerfed in power output and armament to better suit its imposed class of ship. and the player should hire escorts (other players) to form a carrier group. not just be a flying fortress
Once more, find a magical way to raise the player cap on the server and there's a chance in hell that I'll agree with you, but until that happens, there are constantly players -forced- to fly solo because nobody else in their faction happens to be online. I'm sorry, but I RP my carrier as a support ship for patrols at the ass-end of the universe, I like flying alone, and I dont relish the idea of suddenly becoming prey to even the damn NPC patrols because you people cant get your brains unhinged from the word "carrier".
Quote:But the thing about carriers,
If they have heaps of bb, heaps of armor, but not that good weapons... (about the same firepower as a light-medium cruiser,) It would probably still be more powerful than your average battleship.
I'd also say cut the speed.
Once more, a billion bats and bots wont do anything when I have no defenses. You want to piss and moan about any carrier, do it for the Liberty dreadnaught, the OLAC is fine. Still, even the liberty carrier isnt an issue right now, as it's balanced similarly to heavy battleships.
I'm really getting tired of repeating myself. Until you come up with a way to give me swarms of NPC fighters and bombers that i can launch and command at my whim, Carriers will be balanced in the same manner as their respective ship classes. Changing that is only going to make this mod more of a bomberwhore's wet dream.
Quote:the carrier, you know giant boat with a flight deck...in all reality should not have 16 battleship guns. if anything it should have GB guns. or guns similar to. again it is not made for direct ship to ship combat. it is meant to call the shots from the side lines. other ships deal with whatever decides to come into its range.
Well, I'm sorry, but in this game, they -are- meant for direct combat. How many times have you succesfully killed an enemy battleship pelting you with heavy mortars by saying "I launch mah bombarz! You die!" in system chat? yea, I think none.
You people dont freaking get it do you? Game mechanics limit how these ships can be balanced.
Like I said, just rename the damned things, I'm tired of this argument coming up once a month when someone decides to whine about something other than bombers.
Quote:The numbers are an exaggeration, but why would there be a carrier with out any kind of fighter support?
Because I dont have a jumble of little minion players that are online 24/7 to do what I command, perhaps? Are you really that dense?
Back during 4.84, despite the fact that I didnt have a carrier at that time, Almost every time I got onto the server to play with my Order character, I was the -only- Order player online. Occasionally one or two others might show up, but they usually went off and did their own thing instead of wanting to sit around and help me do -my- RP, and honestly I dont fricken blame them.
Turn this game into a full fledged MMO with no player limit, and -then- we can talk about constantly relying on other players to even be able to undock. Until then, kindly stop this ridiculous argument.
@ Tenacity (again): there should only be a couple of them flying around in the first place. and liberty is full of indies that would be glad to run around with a carrier just cause they feel special. Order people are either on or their not, so again all kinds of potential support there.
the osiris was going full bore against the OLC only thing to the osiris's disadvantage was the 4 solaris on the a** end of the ship, the LC out maneuvered it and shot from a distance to have enough reaction time to dodge the osiris;s HM. believe me it can be done, and since the OLC has a thruster the osiris can not possibly keep up so the OLC can effectively keep away. Any way back on topic here.
why do you need a high person cap to make the carrier work. as i stated in the first lil bit there, you can use what is around you, hire people. mercs, FL, other indies of the same faction. whatever.
and it doesnt matter how you put it. the carrier in no way should be able to take out anything bigger than a GB with that kind of ease. in space or not. the carrier is a specified role ship that is to sit back and defend agains smaller ships while the other. not a super uber beast warship of doom that reigns down 16 guns of flaming hell on everything.
and just because your guns and power are nerfed doesnt mean you will die from NPC's you still have a ton of armor and shields, and if the carrier class guns are more specialized for GB and fighter killing, you can whack them easier anyway.
Quote:Well, I'm sorry, but in this game, they -are- meant for direct combat. How many times have you succesfully killed an enemy battleship pelting you with heavy mortars by saying "I launch mah bombarz! You die!" in system chat? yea, I think none.
You people dont freaking get it do you? Game mechanics limit how these ships can be balanced.
Like I said, just rename the damned things, I'm tired of this argument coming up once a month when someone decides to whine about something other than bombers.
If we have to bend around game mechanics, then I'd chose to make the carrier class more bomber capable fighters, A "Buff." I'll point at the Liberty Carrier since the LAC is apparently a bad example now.
Liberty's Carrier still outguns it's Dreadnaught. I'd prefer to have more roles in capital ships, as would most other people. Bombers will probably get a change, why not caps? The Carrier could get an AA ability, within Cruiser or gunboat class weaponry so that Battleship sized vessels aren't overpowered, and just leave the battleships to be able to fight capitals and fighters they way they can now.
I know I'm sort of promoting an Anti fighter battleship here, but that's not what I'm trying to accomplish. The idea of the ships completing a role that they really should be achieving is what I'd like to see. Namechange is a backup.
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