bomber balance

[notequinoxe]

My personal thoughts on bomber balance...

Bombers could have the following hardpoints,

2x heavy torp
1x CD
1x CM
1x Mine

Create a gun which is like an inferno on steriods, but with a much slower projectile, that uses say 2/3rds of a heavy plant to fit on one of those heavy torp slots.

Give all bombers the heavy plant and drop the agility to match.

Drop bots and batts on bombers by increments until three fighters will kill three bombers before they run a battleship out of bots an batts.

Note! There are no guns (fighter guns or the new bomber guns) at all on those bombers. ONLY the torp slots and CD/mine/cm.

To me that seemed like the obvious solution to the problem. Please tell me what faults there are with that.

Looks good. A class 1 pulse gun.
I'd like to see an EMP torp too. To diversify the options. Only if possible/feasible

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You know that **** has hit the fan when notequinoxe makes a post in an oorp discussion forum.

[frozen]

Whiner? Think it again before you write it next time.

actually, gabor is one of those guys who just about -never- bitches about anything, so your accusations and hostile tone toward him is rather uncalled for, nighthawk. Im not saying apologize, but rather, check your tone towards people. i could say the same thing about how the LR are bitching about the greyhound, but i wont, because not only do i choose to ignore posting flamy posts, i choose to maintain peace instead of egging on others.

@ joe:

i dunno. imo bombers should all become like barghests/fafnirs, get rid of light/mediums altogether, and leave fighters to do the anti bomber work. give bombers just 2 gun slots, 2 torps, cd, and mine. 2 gun slots for the shield busters, (remove hull buster guns for bombers altogether), have nova + supernova, cd, mines (this is where i suggest including a new type of anti cap mine. no movement, no tracking, massive damage, alot of health so they cant be blown up with cd spam (thus prevents bombers from being able to use them against fighters, and a medium explosion radius, 0 shield damage)

barghests/fafnirs work great against caps, but are rather bad against well flown fighters, which is how bombers should be moving towards.

@ looqas:

you use fighters to do anti fighter missions, you use bombers as anti cap. missions which have both, well assemble a fleet. outcasts/corsairs/order normally have enough players, both faction and indies, to make a fleet to do the missions together with.

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[Denelo]

Have to disagree, Joe. That won't help. Guns aren't the problem. I don't care if bombers can kill fighters or not. The problem is that fighter escorts are utterly useless unless they outnumber the bombers five-to-one. Don't make it harder for bombers to kill fighters; make it easier for for fighters to kill bombers. That, I think, is the solution.

However, the new bomber guns seem somewhat senseless to me. They're... counter-productive. They actually made the bombers better at killing caps before fighters can kill the bombers, not worse. Drop the new guns and revert to the old, or make the new guns some kind of self-defense anti-fighter guns. Drop bomber armor and/or agility to such a point where it's easy enough to hit a bomber that fighter escorts are actually worth having.

[Jihadjoe]

barghests/fafnirs work great against caps, but are rather bad against well flown fighters, which is how bombers should be moving towards.

The problem is they still have a lot of bots and batts, meaning that fighters still have no chance to kill them before the bombers slaughter the caps.

To address the issue of not being able to do missions, then you could add low level guns on, which work well enough vs NPC's.

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[Weedalot]

My personal thoughts on bomber balance...

Bombers could have the following hardpoints,

2x heavy torp
1x CD
1x CM
1x Mine

Create a gun which is like an inferno on steriods, but with a much slower projectile, that uses say 2/3rds of a heavy plant to fit on one of those heavy torp slots.

Give all bombers the heavy plant and drop the agility to match.

Drop bots and batts on bombers by increments until three fighters will kill three bombers before they run a battleship out of bots an batts.

Note! There are no guns (fighter guns or the new bomber guns) at all on those bombers. ONLY the torp slots and CD/mine/cm.

To me that seemed like the obvious solution to the problem. Please tell me what faults there are with that.

well about that.. i am not saying its not what a "bomber" should be.. but it wont be fun flying the bomber... but hell if the bomber wont be fun.. or cannot be used as a dally flying around ship i will get myself something else.. say a missile boat:lol:kidding..


Now Loop, Ghost.. who ever complaining about the bombers and if its the reason you leaving.. i would like to say "lol" because lol is a nice word and should be used more in game.. am i right? or am i right?
Ghost PVP is fun and should be part of a space simulator.. but not all of it.. something you never understood.. what i can suggest to you is discovery of Discovery.. where PVP is welcomed and RP is the thing of the past.. i am sure you will be happy man.

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♠ Because we can ♠

[frozen]

The problem is they still have a lot of bots and batts, meaning that fighters still have no chance to kill them before the bombers slaughter the caps.

reduce the efficiency of b/b usage for bombers? instead of giving them 4-5 full regens (hypothetical, dont have numbers infront of me at the mo), change the b/b so that they get 2-3 full regens for hull, and 2 full shield regens?

plus, if you increase the size of bombers, and make them heavy (slow turning, low agility, bigger surface exposed), you chance of hitting increases.

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[arvg]

well on the bomber thing, I am lagged up the Wazoo... total noob to PVP in a VHF... yet I was still able to sail all around a Vet Bomber pilot shooting everything he had at me, till he eventually gave up and went home.

Had a similar experience with a Ptrans today as well.

Now I couldn't get close to him to more than ding those shields, but I am sure more experienced VHF pilots could.

The maneuverability is a definite advantage over the Bombers.

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[mjolnir]

Give all bombers the heavy plant and drop the agility to match.

Drop bots and batts on bombers by increments until three fighters will kill three bombers before they run a battleship out of bots an batts.

a) How would those bombers fight gunboats then? They'd get raped by them in small fights (3vs3 and under) much easier. 40% more armor and a bit more energy regen doesn't help much when the bomber gets hit by every shot.

b) bats/bots: yes that was the idea for some time, problem is what BS and with what guns? Right now against Osiris with 4solaris and 2 razors, the fighters can manage that before the BS goes to half bots. Against RH BS with full primaries it's a bit different story.

As Gurjiv says bombers should have at minimum 2 guns, so that the odd NPCs doesn't drive you completely nuts.

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@ Denelo, goals of the bomber guns:
a) remove ability to mount missiles ....check
b) remove ability to mount fighter guns so that we don't have cross-class balancing issues... check
c) keep them about same vs caps in general....still ongoing

In the end it's the simplest thing in the world to give bomber guns same stats as a given fighter gun.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Weedalot]

yes a fighter vs bomber if the skills match the fighter should win most of the times..

but the objective of the bombers is to take down caps.. which it does very good.. but most of the fighters cannot stop a bomber squad before they destroy the cap.. But when the cap got experienced Bomber escort they could SNAC the enemy bomber and end it:P.. but still fighters do take long to kill a bomber

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♠ Because we can ♠

[Colonel.Tigh]

IMHO the Fafnir is a perfectly balanced Bomber;

-its big
-its heavy
-it has firepower to defeat capitalships
-it cant defend itself against fighters
-it can take damage from fighter long enough to hurt capital ships

two guns and two backfireing turrets, are at least something to shoot with, but not enough to take on fighters, fighters cant miss that thing.
and it looks cool as well, the Rogue Heavy Bomber has to many guns, and isent that big (front profile) and therefor too good. But the fafnir is a real bomber....currently noone really uses it, cause the snubby ist better, faster has 5 guns forward instead of 2 while still haveing a large large powercore.