' Wrote:I see it as somewhat of an issue, because to its extreme, you have pirates who make a demand, then shoot before the trader can realistically carry out the demand. Plus, a trader may not have the funds being asked for, and will have to negotiate down - and while you can say "yeah, but he may be lying, and he may have a cap8 barge on another account, blah blah" - thats metagaming, and simply a justification for refusing to negotiate, and shoot regardless.
Lets look at it from another perspective, shall we?
Pirates always say "you have your ship to think about, even if your empty, so you should be paying, no matter the amount..."
Well, a pirate is an outlaw - he has no income, and is a hunted man. Pirates are not rich. the money you recieve goes toward keeping your ship flying just that much longer, keeping you and your crew fed just that much longer, and keeps you out of the reach of the law just that much longer - pirates, by there nature, are destitute - consider your own rp, and ask yourself "should shooting REALLY come so quickly? I need this money - I need anything i can get really..."
So if you demand 5 million because your greedy, trader says he only has two - shooting him and getting nothing makes no damn rp sense whatsoever. especially if your in a bomber.
The pirate doesn't want you to be thinking. He wants to force you to pay as quickly as possible, because every extra second that trader is there it spells extra risk. If you start shooting you're far more likely to get what you asked for quickly if you have a conversation about it. Pirates are aggressive by nature - they're not going to stand for negotiations and diplomacy with traders. Don't have enough money to pay his demand? If it's a fair demand based on the size of your ship, then tough luck. Next time pay the bloodthirsty pirate.
What does the pirate earn by destroying the trader? He improves his reputation. A reputation for being a bad-ass pirate who kills anybody who doesn't give him what he asks for was crucial for one of my indie pirate characters. Crucial because it was exactly what I was trying to achieve.
[17:45:39] Wolfs Ghost (Murphy): Tom, you have problems. Go kill yourself.
[19:25:12] Johnny (Jam): Tomtom, I will beat you with a spoon.
[14:22:56] Prarabdh Thakur: KILL HIM WITH A SHEEP.
[17:40:48] Eagle (Junes): Tom should be slapped with a spoon.
[11:32:18] Warspite: Thank you for being so awesome Tom. <3
[18:17:36] Metano: I love you tomtom
[20:06:24] Warspite: I will seriously give you epic head.
' Wrote:Edit: also, Tomtomrawr, fappin' like a boss.
' Wrote:What does the pirate earn by destroying the trader? He improves his reputation. A reputation for being a bad-ass pirate who kills anybody who doesn't give him what he asks for was crucial for one of my indie pirate characters. Crucial because it was exactly what I was trying to achieve.
Sorry man, but that's the response i would expect from a Corsair with a nation backing him
Not an indie pirate with just a roc bomber to his name, and a few coins to rub together.
Plus, aint no secret your QCP - maybe your perspective is skewed from being faction aligned.
All im saying is - an indie pirate should, by his rp, think twice, maybe three times, before lobbing snac's - its more of an answer to the old chestnut of "think of your rp and pay" - well, think of your rp and not be blue message hunting?
Is this thread made up of everyone telling other people how they should rp? We have rules the set put broad outlines for rp on the server. We leave people a large area of room within those outlines to rp. There is a reason for that.
In that case Zelot, I will happily say my Ship is insured with full coverage, and ive paid for the best in ejection systems, and tell said pirate to shoot me for all he's worth.
If traders start running, pirates should have no qualms about shooting at them. The onus should fall on the trader to role-play because he knows that he has been accosted by a pirate and if he chooses to run, it only means that he understands that he will be shot at by the pirate. There's always the option of surrendering with a higher price attached when he is about to be demolished. You can negotiate, trade down, bargain for some of your cargo and the pirates should also learn to accommodate and react.
This doesn't mean that the pirates should just start their demands with 5 million or die. Gimme or die is not good RP. Banter, set up demands as you go along, tell them to pay a toll fee, make fun of them, tell them to leave some of their goods. If they refuse, show them your big guns but don't kill them. You want funds, not deaths, unless you're roleplaying as a killer or something.
I don't like the rank and credits system. Pirates should pirate based on their preferences and judgement, whether the guy in the Rhino is capable of paying high dues or how much the boss of the company would pay to keep his transport well and healthy and not because he is level 90 and worth it. One of the guides I read about pirating talks about how a pirate should look at the ranks and decide if the players below 50 is capable of paying 2 million. Those player wants RP too, if they meet pirates, it's good too, you can always find something else to do with them. Acquire them, turn them into your runners if you think it's possible, hire them as fledgling pirates and pay them a pittance for every ship you pirate together, make them into partners as they grow out of apprenticeship, hell, introduce them to your drinking buddies and wife. It will be nice if the ranks system can be removed.
No permanent death makes players go pew pew pew all the time rather than make conscious efforts to find alternative solutions in their RP. Will the trader be more likely to run if he knows that he's going to lose everything (not just his reloads and cargo, but his 200m transport as well), or will he be more likely to pay up or bargain for a price? Will he spend time hiring fighters to guard his flanks? What about the pirates? Will they be more likely to target big transports or find easier targets because that transport has a couple of fighters flanking and scouting for him?
Like the anecdote the OP listed, he had reasons to be where he was and the other party objected (maybe he had his own orders/reasoning), he could be escorted out of the system or given due warning to remove his presence from the sector. The other party can also talk to his boss or partners and decide what they want to do with the miner. Maybe hire him even. If it comes down to destroying OP, then at least give him the RP. Why would he just go pew pew pew and end an ENTIRE CREW's lives? How would his faction take to his massacre of an entire mining crew? What would the authorities do? What would the consequences be? But no, pew pew pew is much easier and fun, and nobody really dies. That's why RP is limited.
Interaction, it's not just pew pew pew. Just my two cents. Not trying to dictate RP, but saying that RP is not limited to pay up or die, and that there are many more options and those options might lead to interesting encounters and scenarios.
' Wrote:Sorry man, but that's the response i would expect from a Corsair with a nation backing him
Not an indie pirate with just a roc bomber to his name, and a few coins to rub together.
Plus, aint no secret your QCP - maybe your perspective is skewed from being faction aligned.
All im saying is - an indie pirate should, by his rp, think twice, maybe three times, before lobbing snac's - its more of an answer to the old chestnut of "think of your rp and pay" - well, think of your rp and not be blue message hunting?
Actually, after one successful piracy attempt with my old pirate Roc my character had an extra 4-12 millions to his name, depending on how many miners were at the mining site. More than enough time to be as reckless as he wants with his pirating. And miners and traders really do grow on trees - you shoot one down, five more are around the next day. Not like he's particularly missing anything. Kill the ones who try to talk back is what my character always did, because that was his RP - he didn't care what people had to say, he just wanted the money.
You need to understand that for some people, acting like that is actually a choice. Sorry if my character wasn't interested in going aboard said trader/miner for a glass of port and discussion about politics and other topics of the day.
[17:45:39] Wolfs Ghost (Murphy): Tom, you have problems. Go kill yourself.
[19:25:12] Johnny (Jam): Tomtom, I will beat you with a spoon.
[14:22:56] Prarabdh Thakur: KILL HIM WITH A SHEEP.
[17:40:48] Eagle (Junes): Tom should be slapped with a spoon.
[11:32:18] Warspite: Thank you for being so awesome Tom. <3
[18:17:36] Metano: I love you tomtom
[20:06:24] Warspite: I will seriously give you epic head.
' Wrote:Edit: also, Tomtomrawr, fappin' like a boss.
' Wrote:This made me spit coke out my nose:lol:
Well as a trader/pirate/navy, and so on. I take all encounter's as they come. You also miss 1 point though.
I pick up 5000 scrap from a junker(or mine it myself) for a really cheap price. Now 2minutes later(1 or 2 TL's) i pirate demands 5mil from me. I will look at my money spent, and time/distance from where i got cargo.In this case cheap,and very close. So i will not pay 5mil. I will try to broker a deal, but this seldom works if in a train.
That's why i say most pirates need to think more.
Well here's my thing: you either paid something or spent time to get the stuff. You also spent time moving it. If you're close to where you got it, it's a good choice to try and lessen the price. Based on who I am and what I am doing, though, it's my turn to make a response. Whatever that response is, I don't think it should be looked down upon. It's a Roleplay choice. Do you really want to lose that scrap and risk death if he doesn't lower it or doesn't lower it as much as you want him to? Well perhaps that is worth it to your trader and I can't look down on that choice, but because my pirate might decide not to care about "Pah pah pah your needs" does not mean that it is bad Roleplay on the part of the pirate.
' Wrote:very very few pirates who would talk more then necessary demand - cash - shot / death usual stuff. Yer right again Doc.
16,8 million maybe per hour? Or does that route flies itself in just single station- station route? I doubt it. I aint paying 5 millions just cause im in 5k, or because I can earn 16,8 million per hour, when I get stopped 4 times by pirates, im all dry.
Think BaconSoda, outside the one interaction box.
Actually, this run takes about half an hour theoretically, more like 40 minutes realistically, so it has about the average 20 million credits per hour profit range.
Quite frankly, unless the pirate is extremely wily and manages to trap you multiple times in one run, running into two pirates per run is mostly impossible. Four pirates is the most retarded thing I have ever heard of. Have you ever played this game? I have never in three years of playing this run into four pirates in the same hour. Ever. I suppose this just a good time to say "Hire a scout." or perhaps rethink your trading strategies.
I remember once I was in Shikoku pirating on the Kepler lane. Galileo was clear with no one in it. There was one trader who refused to take the Galileo lane. I kept Roleplaying with him. He broke Roleplay to tell me to stop "exclusively targeting him." I asked him why he didn't just fly through Galileo instead. He refused. He kept coming back and I kept Roleplaying. After the third time after our conversation, he solved his own problem and went to Galileo. This is legitimately how simple it is to avoid multiple pirate interactions on the same run. If this is the kind of problem you have, maybe I could give you some tips in PM.
But you bring up a good point, how does choice affect multiple interactions? As a character, you should be developing over time. When you come to a trader, demand a lot, and he interacts with you, that character should be developing thoughts and dispositions towards certain people and factions. For the sake of variety, take a Unioner. That Unioner can interact with people and as, say, a Daumann escapes and praises Republican or a DSE talks about how he dislikes the bar at Alster, he can form views and opinions about Daumann and DSE to become a 3 dimensional character instead of just a paper Unioner who is all "Rah rah rah Republican." When someone only charges 500,000 credits, he doesn't get that choice. No one is forced to interact. It's the simplest choice in the world to say "Well here you go, now you know nothing about me." meanwhile your character is a paper-thin shell of a character waiting to be developed. I would definitely rather be considered an in-character jerk and have a rich, developed character than compromise my character and Roleplay.
EDIT: Oh yeah I was on vacation (sun) so sorry for slight G-G-G-GRAVEDIGGER.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
Ive played this game. ive had situations you probably fail to see. Thus, I conclude our interaction, without further replies to your own replies.
I stand by my statement pirates are for most part people, who are lazy to trade and charge insane amount of cash, much like based on your calculations. A note - id never pay that much. I got respawn button.
' Wrote:Sorry man, but that's the response i would expect from a Corsair with a nation backing him
Not an indie pirate with just a roc bomber to his name, and a few coins to rub together.
Plus, aint no secret your QCP - maybe your perspective is skewed from being faction aligned.
All im saying is - an indie pirate should, by his rp, think twice, maybe three times, before lobbing snac's - its more of an answer to the old chestnut of "think of your rp and pay" - well, think of your rp and not be blue message hunting?
See letting go people isn't too bad, problem is once they learn you're soft hearted they'll use it against you, atleast the ones that solely aim to get the credits.
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