TL;DR
I think such factions as Outcasts, Corsairs, Red Hessians etc would be better without cap fleets and all these BIG shipyards and stuff. In Vanilla they were hidden on the far-far edge of the Sirius sector, why would they need caps? Guerilla warfare fits them better.
In Vanilla hispanic factions were somewhat misterious and unusual.
In Disco they remind retarded house more likely.
' Wrote:Secondly, the other house wouldn't want to be seen to be helping a terrorist group; Liberty considers them terrorists, and so any aid given is a political catastrophe.
Thirdlyy, :nono:The Order are still considered a terrorist group by Liberty. They are frequently attacked by Navy fleets. Of COURSE Liberty wouldn't HELP them; they might be grateful for keeping Nomads away, but that unfortunately just isn't enough. Still hostile, still terrorists to Liberty.
I never said that fertility wasn't a problem; simply that longer lives, and potentially longer periods of child-bearing capacity could help to balance out cardamine effects.
We're going off of the lore from the original, unmodded Freelancer, not Igiss' lore, which contradicts the original lore in certain aspects. At the end of the single player campaign, all of the Houses were grateful to the Order for realizing the Nomad threat, especially Liberty since President Jacobi was rescued by the Order. At the very least, the Order should be treated with respectful neutrality, but no. In Discovery, which is supposed to be an extension of Freelancer's original story, but has drifted from that mission, all of the Houses view the Order with some degree of distrust and Liberty outright hates the Order because of the warmonger President Powell that Igiss made to succeed Jacobi.
Also, the Corsairs' get their resources by spreading alien artifacts and increasing the risk of Nomad infestation, although they don't care about this. The Order's mission is to prevent Nomad infestation through any means. This creates a conflict of interest between the Order and the Corsairs, which is why the Order-Corsair alliance was widely regarded as OORP. The Order's need for resources isn't worth turning a blind eye to Corsair artifact smugglers that could potentially create another Nomad infestation. In fact, if the original lore was truly and properly extended, the Order would be getting most of their resources from the Houses.
About the cardamine effects, they don't balance out. This has been implied for quite a while. Outcast births are a widely celebrated event in Outcast society, which implies that the longer lifespans don't compensate for the decreased fertility rate.
' Wrote:TL;DR
I think such factions as Outcasts, Corsairs, Red Hessians etc would be better without cap fleets and all these BIG shipyards and stuff. In Vanilla they were hidden on the far-far edge of the Sirius sector, why would they need caps? Guerilla warfare fits them better.
In Vanilla hispanic factions were somewhat misterious and unusual.
In Disco they remind retarded house more likely.
To late to change anything though.
I'm pretty sure that most unlawful groups would lack capital ships, but have amazing snub ships. In each House, there's at least one unlawful group that is regarded as being very dangerous because of better piloting and ship-building skills. If unlawful factions were actually stripped of their capital ships, I feel like they should at least get better snub ships as compensation.
I'm getting very sick of the "too late to change anything" stance. If something is flawed, just change it if it'll be better in the long run. Users of this mod should be willing to live with changes that the developers and the community deem necessary.
Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits
' Wrote:We're going off of the lore from the original, unmodded Freelancer, not Igiss' lore, which contradicts the original lore in certain aspects. At the end of the single player campaign, all of the Houses were grateful to the Order for realizing the Nomad threat, especially Liberty since President Jacobi was rescued by the Order. At the very least, the Order should be treated with respectful neutrality, but no. In Discovery, which is supposed to be an extension of Freelancer's original story, but has drifted from that mission, all of the Houses view the Order with some degree of distrust and Liberty outright hates the Order because of the warmonger President Powell that Igiss made to succeed Jacobi.
Also, the Corsairs' get their resources by spreading alien artifacts and increasing the risk of Nomad infestation, although they don't care about this. The Order's mission is to prevent Nomad infestation through any means. This creates a conflict of interest between the Order and the Corsairs, which is why the Order-Corsair alliance was widely regarded as OORP. The Order's need for resources isn't worth turning a blind eye to Corsair artifact smugglers that could potentially create another Nomad infestation. In fact, if the original lore was truly and properly extended, the Order would be getting most of their resources from the Houses.
About the cardamine effects, they don't balance out. This has been implied for quite a while. Outcast births are a widely celebrated event in Outcast society, which implies that the longer lifespans don't compensate for the decreased fertility rate.
I'm pretty sure that most unlawful groups would lack capital ships, but have amazing snub ships. In each House, there's at least one unlawful group that is regarded as being very dangerous because of better piloting and ship-building skills. If unlawful factions were actually stripped of their capital ships, I feel like they should at least get better snub ships as compensation.
I'm getting very sick of the "too late to change anything" stance. If something is flawed, just change it if it'll be better in the long run. Users of this mod should be willing to live with changes that the developers and the community deem necessary.
I think it's more the people who buy and fly them who are the problem then the whole too many cap ships available problem... Maybe.....3 in 1 cap ship players actually RP well the rest just wander around and pew pew (Don't quote that just speaking from my own experience.)
' Wrote:We're going off of the lore from the original, unmodded Freelancer, not Igiss' lore, which contradicts the original lore in certain aspects. At the end of the single player campaign, all of the Houses were grateful to the Order for realizing the Nomad threat, especially Liberty since President Jacobi was rescued by the Order. At the very least, the Order should be treated with respectful neutrality, but no. In Discovery, which is supposed to be an extension of Freelancer's original story, but has drifted from that mission, all of the Houses view the Order with some degree of distrust and Liberty outright hates the Order because of the warmonger President Powell that Igiss made to succeed Jacobi.
The main RP theme in regards to Liberty/Order is that despite the Houses' gratefulness, The Order still infringes in Liberty territory, and the past cannot be forgotten. That seems perfectly fine to me.
However, I do agree that their should be far more support for The Order; unfortunately, we seem to be arguing something which is generally unarguable.
' Wrote:Also, the Corsairs' get their resources by spreading alien artifacts and increasing the risk of Nomad infestation, although they don't care about this. The Order's mission is to prevent Nomad infestation through any means. This creates a conflict of interest between the Order and the Corsairs, which is why the Order-Corsair alliance was widely regarded as OORP. The Order's need for resources isn't worth turning a blind eye to Corsair artifact smugglers that could potentially create another Nomad infestation. In fact, if the original lore was truly and properly extended, the Order would be getting most of their resources from the Houses.
This is true; this is what led down to the breakdown of the alliance. The breakdown may have been an attempt to rectify any possible mistake made, since some consider to be have been one.
' Wrote:About the cardamine effects, they don't balance out. This has been implied for quite a while. Outcast births are a widely celebrated event in Outcast society, which implies that the longer lifespans don't compensate for the decreased fertility rate.
It won't compensate wholly, but it is another important angle to consider.
If you would mind elaborating? You've failed to back up any of your views, and so it is difficult to value and/or consider what you are saying. I'm not telling you to RTFM now, am I?
Is it not true that what I said was correct? That Liberty still considers The Order as a terrorist organisation. Oh, yes. So why argue?
' Wrote:The main RP theme in regards to Liberty/Order is that despite the Houses' gratefulness, The Order still infringes in Liberty territory, and the past cannot be forgotten. That seems perfectly fine to me.
In all fairness, both sides encroach on each other's territory. Liberty goes in Omicron Minor, the Order goes into Alaska. I'm just not sure which one did it first. A more experienced LN/LSF/Order player will be able to tell you that.
And we're drifting from the original topic.
Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits
' Wrote:In all fairness, both sides encroach on each other's territory. Liberty goes in Omicron Minor, the Order goes into Alaska. I'm just not sure which one did it first. A more experienced LN/LSF/Order player will be able to tell you that.
And we're drifting from the original topic.
This is true; I believe it was the Order who encroached first. Obviously, the theft and other 'terrorist' acts would have contributed.
Quote:This is true; this is what led down to the breakdown of the alliance. The breakdown may have been an attempt to rectify any possible mistake made, since some consider to be have been one.
It was an attempt to start rectifying issues, as myself and others on the dev team managed to finally persuade Igiss to ditch it in 4.85. There is no reason why this cannot be done for other issues as well (and some will be rectified in similar ways for 4.87 I have no doubt).
Quote:If you would mind elaborating? You've failed to back up any of your views, and so it is difficult to value and/or consider what you are saying. I'm not telling you to RTFM now, am I?
Because Vladezhda is clearly trolling. Do try to actually bother posting something worthwhile and contributive to the discussion instead of a bunch of emoticon's please, Vladezhda. It isn't much to ask.
Quote:About the cardamine effects, they don't balance out. This has been implied for quite a while. Outcast births are a widely celebrated event in Outcast society, which implies that the longer lifespans don't compensate for the decreased fertility rate.
It is my opinion that the Outcast population is increasing, albeit pretty slowly. If this were not the case then the Outcasts would have died out centuries before they even came into contact with the other Houses, and is even mentioned as such in the lore. It is true also, however, that births in Outcast society are widely celebrated, although since their contact with the Houses and access to greater resources and medical technology this has become more of a tradition than indication of birth rarity. Slaves eventually become like the Outcasts and are freed to live on Malta, which has also undoubtedly contributed to their population increases, although again this didn't start to occur until after first contact with the Houses.
In any case, we are getting a little off topic and my opinion on capital ships remains unchanged from my previous post in this topic: that is to say, no pirate group players should be allowed battleships (except for dockable base ones for Outcasts and Corsairs), and only Outcasts and Corsairs allowed up to cruiser class.
Ok, so it seems like the general consensus is that unlawful groups generally shouldn't have capital ships. Now the bigger issue is this: How do we raise enough hell about it to get the developers to listen to us?
Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits
Yeah I going to say no to this idea. Yes the suggestion is perfectly sound in hardcore RP.
But when you break down the effects on the actual game. No more cap vs cap. Lawful caps ruling house space.... and people would actually wonder why the population of Liberty would increase and the RP there diminish. Because every person who wants to have a big ship is going to buy them Lib (or other) Battleships.
Most people enjoy this mod for the great fun features it adds to the game. I doubt the majority revel in the high of flying ships (or in this case not flying ships) that have been allocated upon calculated musings of people who know the GPD of each faction.
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