Yet again about the ships

[VoluptaBox]

Wait, Costin, why do you care, didn't you quit disco for good? hmmm some spying needed to be done!

I don't see what that has to do with my point :rolleyes:

And yes, as I said. I don't play, but i lurk forums...I hate bus rides...although today is a new exciting adventure...train :cool:

[CzeReptile]

those 49 people who voted yes for the bomber poll...They have all died when jousting a bomber.
less QQ more pewpew,

If you make bombers larger and slower, even if more armoured, they would be easy prey to fighters. And allied fighters won't be able to protect the bombers because enemy fighters can dodge while dishing out damage...sort of like now escorts are hopeless vs a bomber who attacks a cap, the same way escorts would be useless vs a fighter who attacks a bomber. So I don't really see that as a solution...

Thats why bombers have powerful torpedoes, turrets to defend themselves and lots of armor. Also long range so they can apply hit and run tactics. Fire torpedo, cruise away and be gone and appear from other place.

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[Aoyagi]

If you make bombers larger and slower, even if more armoured, they would be easy prey to fighters. And allied fighters won't be able to protect the bombers because enemy fighters can dodge while dishing out damage...sort of like now escorts are hopeless vs a bomber who attacks a cap, the same way escorts would be useless vs a fighter who attacks a bomber. So I don't really see that as a solution...

Well, 2:1 is probably oversize, but they simply are too small as it is. If they were, say 50% bigger (150% of their current size), they would be easier to kill by fighters (as they are supposed to be), but not that easy (armor buff, possibly) and capital ships would have better time hitting them. AND they would have room where to put 70 Novas.

[CzeReptile]

I like the turret view bomber defense with enough point blank guns.
Also a MR nerf towards bombers then >.>

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[sadtranslation]

The point is simple: current bombers are like this:

And you want them to become like that:

But, suddenly, it looks more like something pretty familiar:

Akura already explained this strange similiarity:

Gunboats were originally bombers.


Fighters - Protecting gunboats, Antifighter
Gunboats - Anticap

Why do you think Gunboats in Vanilla had forward guns?

Also, Liberty didn't have a gunboat in Vanilla, cause their Seige Cruiser served the purpose.

Basically, the current bombers are resembling not Medium and Heavy Bombers, but Light ones, as well as Fighter-bombers and Ground-attack aircraft, because something you dream of won't be capable of surviving in arcade environment.

On a very side note, I love the suggestion to cruise away from fighters. On a bomber.

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[CzeReptile]

Thing is, if light bombers, give them equal weaponry. Its light anticap weapon with best energy / damage gun in the mod if I am right.

And thx for the cruising. It should be TORPEDOES away and RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN, then attack from other side...
Those pics are true, I am suggesting BOMBER, not CAS thing.

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[Govedo13]

LEAVE AS IS SILLYZ!
Geezsh...[/size]

those 49 people who voted yes for the bomber poll...They have all died when jousting a bomber.
less QQ more pewpew,

Learn to PvP. Bombers and stuff do die easy if you hit them. Learn to hit them. 4 Shots from Cerberus Battleship Turret (the slowest one with the speed of the codename 650) do instant kill de-shielded bomber.
2 Battlerazors Instant kill every bomber, 2 battleship missiles instant-kill every bomber, double nuke instant kill almost every bomber. You have the toys, learn to use them right. If you regularly die in fighter from weapon with 280 speed that you can out strafe in joust and get deshielded by 350 speed guns then you suck in PvP, and the problem is your skill not the bombers. Bombers are nerfed enough so it is np. Buff your skills.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[CzeReptile]

Learn to PvP. Bombers and stuff do die easy if you hit them. Learn to hit them. 4 Shots from Cerberus Battleship Turret (the slowest one with the speed of the codename 650) do instant kill de-shielded bomber.
2 Battlerazors Instant kill every bomber, 2 battleship missiles instant-kill every bomber, double nuke instant kill almost every bomber. You have the toys, learn to use them right. If you regularly die in fighter from weapon with 280 speed that you can out strafe in joust and get deshielded by 350 speed guns then you suck in PvP, and the problem is your skill not the bombers. Bombers are nerfed enough so it is np. Buff your skills.

You do realize this is not about pew pew right? I am not blaming bombers or whatnot for being imba, nerfed, I blame them for not being bombers and aim to kind of reconsider their role, stats, size, be it your way so they are actual bombers.

If you wanna / wish to insult people via their lesser pvp skill, please get lost, this feedback is related to something different, then jibjab about how uber someone can be.

I kill NPCs in my battleship. Give me cookie.

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[Hades]

Akura already explained this strange similiarity:[/i]
Basically, the current bombers are resembling not Medium and Heavy Bombers, but Light ones, as well as Fighter-bombers and Ground-attack aircraft, because something you dream of won't be capable of surviving in arcade environment.

On a very side note, I love the suggestion to cruise away from fighters. On a bomber.

If vanilla gunboats were meant to be bombers in Vanilla, then why, in the vanilla campaign, do bombers (specifically said so by either characters or unimportant NPCs) use fighter models and gunboats are never called nor even remotely suggest to being bombers?

[Jinx]

one of the main problems of bombers vs. caps is that:

- caps go from a tiny bottlenose up to a juggernaut - and the bomberclass has the ambition to be equally awesome vs. all of them.

- capships enjoy the greatest range of sizes and strengths of all ships - and it is only the rough classification as "capital" (war)-ships that puts them all under one banner.


we differentiate fighters a lot more even if their differences are a lot smaller. - a light fighter to a VHF does not vary as much in size as a bunboat to a battleship. - even the agility and speed of a LF isn t so much different as the agility and speed of a gunboat to a battleship.

- so lets think of it ... we want one ship that is equally good vs. ALL fightertypes... the tiny and over-agile voidrunner up to the spatial SHF. - and with equally good i mean "this ship is meant to take them out" ( just as so many proclaim that the bomber is meant to take out capital warships )

- do we have such a ship?

no ship in disco can take on all fighters - except other fighters. - sure... a battleship can reduce any fighter to scrap metal in seconds.... provided the fighter does not move and is well in range. but not even the gunboat can kill a fighter if the fighter decides NOT to be killed.

it is a little different with capital warships. - since they are slower, they cannot run away as easy as a fighter can run from a capital warship. - its chance of survival if it fails to hit the enemy is to dock.




so what was mentioned is kind of right...


- we have three kinds of bombers. - why on earth do we want them to be equally good vs. all capital warships


- light bombers might be good vs. gunboats - but bad vs. battleships ( yes, they are not as good as heavy bombers right now, but hardly bad )

- heavy bombers should be good vs. cruisers, but lacking vs. gunboats and lower on power vs. battleships

- superheavy bombers should be good vs. battleships, but worse vs. cruisers and bad vs. gunboats.


how could you achive that? - a light bomber would have little power and would be what we call "fighterbomber" - roughly fightersized, slightly heavier armour for slightly less agility and one main cannon that takes ages to recharge. ( no SNAC, but why not a dual slot for razors )

heavy bombers would be significantly larger in size, a lot less agile - but pack a lot more power ( kind of like the fafnir now ) ... equipped with something like the SNAC with a short range (< 600 [which extends to more due to the bombers momentum] )

superheavy bombers would be roughly GB size - also only about as agile - and a lot LESS armoured ( with only light shields ) - but they would pack a hell of a punishment.... with a rather slow but semi guided projectile ( working nova type )

at the same time - decrease gunboat armour significantly ( their main defense being their shield ) - increase cruiser armour significantly and also increase battleship armour by a lot




the above only describes an IDEA - but also the problem.



in terms of "scissor, paper, stone" the bomber is THE allround ship still - not as good as 4.84 for sure - and certainly not as powerful as the dual nova cannon bombers of 4.83...

a light bomber should dodge like they do now - thats just fair... but a bomber designed to fight the heaviest of battleships should not be the so called "fighter-bomber"-type anymore.


edit:

and cause its fasionable to compare real life - just a fun thing... :

i found THAT with google - ppl say that its used to shoot down "big" air things...

http://data3.primeportal.net/artillery/voj...ef_07_of_25.jpg





and below i found that on google which is meant to shoot down "small" air things

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stinger_03.jpg



no idea if thats really true - but if it is... you see the differences. - there must be a reason why one is small enough to be fired from the shoulder ( light bomber if you want it so ) ... and the other looks like its 2 moonrockets on wheels ( but yes - maybe the 2 big missiles are just from ww2 and the rocketlauncher is modern - who knows )

what i want to show is.... big weapons to deal with big things ( even nowadays ) - small weapons to deal with small things. ... and yes... a single satchel charge can probably take out an entire battleship - but we do not play "splinter cell" where one man infiltrates the ship...

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