Battleships- a solution

[... kur nubėgo?]

I voted for first. Actually this is an idea I thinked to suggest lately. But agian we crash into teh fall then we think about Indies who are really good at cap ships. So the RP thing was offered. Anyhow it was denied by admins becosue they have a lot of work. Yus I udnerstand it quite well. .. but why admins?... I think soem official faction leaders are already pissed by troubles wich lolboats cause to their npc faction time to time. Expecialy bs cap spam, overkilling, overganking "red on scaners *pew pew*" lack of RP and just huge guns. .sometimes even lack of any sense or words and just *pew pew* in huge ship. Or huge disbalance in fights becouse someone brings 8+ BS's.

Make the RP stories granted for indies by player facion leaders, in which player wants to own a BS. What you think?

Perhaps BC's are actually way way way too much overused too. But .. controling all of em requires way to much time too.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Galacius]

I voted for first. Actually this is an idea I thinked to suggest lately. But agian we crash into teh fall then we think about Indies who are really good at cap ships. So the RP thing was offered. Anyhow it was denied by admins becosue they have a lot of work. Yus I udnerstand it quite well. .. but why admins?... I think soem official faction leaders are already pissed by troubles wich lolboats cause to their npc faction time to time. Expecialy bs cap spam, overkilling, overganking "red on scaners *pew pew*" lack of RP and just huge guns. .sometimes even lack of any sense or words and just *pew pew* in huge ship. Or huge disbalance in fights becouse someone brings 8+ BS's.

Make the RP stories granted for indies by player facion leaders, in which player wants to own a BS. What you think?

Whats to prevent some faction from saying "no only our high ranking people can have them" while totally shutting down anyone trying to get it besides the elite of that faction?

Whats to say some personality difference causing dislike between the faction leader and some indy? Both could be great rp'ers but due to them hating each other the one would screw over the other.

What if their views of the faction differed. Say X thinks y problem is more of a threat and should be dealt with while faction leader Z says b problem is the greater cause and any change is mutiny. What then?

What would stop some faction from having you do initiation "proving" you can do it for stupidly huge amounts of time?

[... kur nubėgo?]

Whats to prevent some faction from saying "no only our high ranking people can have them" while totally shutting down anyone trying to get it besides the elite of that faction?

Whats to say some personality difference causing dislike between the faction leader and some indy? Both could be great rp'ers but due to them hating each other the one would screw over the other.

What if their views of the faction differed. Say X thinks y problem is more of a threat and should be dealt with while faction leader Z says b problem is the greater cause and any change is mutiny. What then?

What would stop some faction from having you do initiation "proving" you can do it for stupidly huge amounts of time?

In my humble opinion, faction leaders who spent a lot of time here. And gained respect and like roleplay are not about to get into personal issues neither state agiasnt special someone. Those guys feels freelancer better then anyone else, well even if there is a lot of other people who RP the same good as them, they are the ones to be trusted more since they have already proven them selves good..

Trust.

Its not about faction.. If you gonna play even some rogue band of that faction and your rp will be worthy to play with, you think player faction leader will not allow you to do that? Anyhow only rogue/terrorist RP i've seen was mon'stars

All thoserogue BH's and former Order rogues are.. well quite a fail. Atleast now.

But if you are afraid you'll be not allowed to fly a BS then your all RP will be just a juctification for blue messege chasing in a cap ship.. I quite understand your worries.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Galacius]

In my humble opinion, faction leaders who spent a lot of time here. And gained respect and like roleplay are not about to get into personal issues neither state agiasnt special someone. Those guys feels freelancer better then anyone else, well even if there is a lot of other people who RP the same good as them, they are the ones to be trusted more since they have already proven them selves good..

Trust.

Its not about faction.. If you gonna play even some rogue band of that faction and your rp will be worthy to play with, you think player faction leader will not allow you to do that? Anyhow only rogue/terrorist RP i've seen was mon'stars

All thoserogue BH's and former Order rogues are.. well quite a fail. Atleast now.

But if you are afraid you'll be not allowed to fly a BS then your all RP will be just a juctification for blue messege chasing in a cap ship.. I quite understand your worries.

That wouldnt even constitute a fraction of my rp so lets not turn this into personal attacks shall we? You havent answered properly, if you implement this what is to protect people from abuse? Because when we even have admins go on trips once in a while im sure not gonna put faith in a mere faction leader...We are all human you know.

[... kur nubėgo?]

That wouldnt even constitute a fraction of my rp so lets not turn this into personal attacks shall we? You havent answered properly, if you implement this what is to protect people from abuse? Because when we even have admins go on trips once in a while im sure not gonna put faith in a mere faction leader...We are all human you know.

I found out indies abusing much more then player factions. Not enought reason for you?

And why should player factio nleader abuse anything?... Personal issues are nothign to do with this, I arready stated. Since most of the people understands that this is a game.

Good roleplayers or community members goes into personal issues very rarely. Besides. The most factions are led by laading teams not by one person.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Galacius]

I found out indies abusing much more then player factions. Not enought reason for you?

And why should player factio nleader abuse anything?... Personal issues are nothign to do with this, I laready stated.

Really? No im not going to get started on your first point even though I reallllyyy want to. Secondly It would be abused at one point or another due to we are HUMAN, what check would you have against that?

Ill use admin abuse for example again (im sorry but its for a point) admins are the head all head all of this server. They shouldnt use their powers against the rules just to prove points or play favorites (which has happened in the past no?). Faction leaders are lower on the rung then admins, so lets look at the point that if the higher can be corrupted so can they. What would you suggest be put in place to prevent faction leader abuse of this?

Acctually I have heard of faction leaders loosing it and sending hatefull and scornful personal messages. What if these disagreements happened in their own faction? What then?

[Linkus]

Gah, this is pointless. One topic is flung up and suddenly the forum is awash with the blood of independent capital ship owners. I'm not reading another 14 page topic on the same thing that has been debated and fought about for years.

What I will say is that this idea does have actual merit, more than the 'FACSHUN CAPITAL SHIPS K? LULZ' wagon that was around not so long ago. If the Battleships get proper boost in stats, I'd definitely support it.
Just a few questions/points:
1) What happens to current independent Battleships?
2) Would the balance team surely not be a bit opposed to making battleships better, simply because less people can fly them?

And here I thought Gurj didn't care for the drama of the forums:P

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[Jihadjoe]

what if bombers were the problem or VHF? - same measures taken? - and ..... what exactly qualifies as a "problem" and who is it to define the "problem". - there are ( at least to me ) the problems with all of those attempts. - the intention may be good... yes. - but the "solutions" are not worked out properly.

Allow me to re-state the reasoning in my first post in this thread.

There are just as many problem players in fighters, bombers, gunboats, starflier, man-flying-engine-with-a-baseball-bat... Whatever. The problem comes with power and visability.

I'd much rather the problem players weren't the size of several whales stacked (like women OLOL) on top of one another, with the power to destroy a fully kitted out VHF or bomber in a couple of shots.

It's a lot harder to ignore a battlecruiser that just doesn't get what disco is about, than it is a fighter. The fact people have been around long enough without getting it to be able to afford a BC or BS astounds me anyway, but that's another matter.

in all the recent years - all of those solutions were similar. - they scratched a bit on the top of the matter - but left deeper problems elsewhere.

if there was a thread saying "restrict bombers to factions only" and give them the very same options. - i would expect to see the same results ( yes, people say a battleship can ruin a players day more than a bomber ... but we agree that its not really the ship, but its the player controlling the ship ) - still - such a thread would be answered greatly different to battleships being the focus of attention.

But is is the power of the ship which causes the problem, as I explained above.

In recent years no solution to the problem of highly visable, loud, and non rp-ing ships has been made, beyond a few player's efforts, be they for better or worse.

I do agree that a lot of attempts at controling cap use has been for the self agrandisement of those doing the restricting rather than the good of the server.

There is a lot to be said for giving people responsibility, and power over other people's actions where it is due.

What you say is true, if you were to make a thread like this regarding bombers the reponce would be along the lines of 'lol-no'. There are reasons for this, and I'll repeat them. Battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers etc, are vast, have high hull values and have insanely powerfull weaponary. This means they are far more of an obstacle to overcome in an RP vs OoRP incident.

- what if a faction does not WANT to restrict caps? - force them to? - if not by rules... paint them as "bad" factions, cause they allow "lol-caps"?
- what if a faction totally ( and i mean utterly ) messes up. - what punishment have they gotto face? - what effect will it have on the wellfare of the community?
- what if a faction approves players and those players totally mess up ( within the rules, but still totally off ) - is that a testament of the failure of a factions judgement?

[ i know - many people really hate these "what if" questions - but if you don t think of them before you introduce things - you ll be unprepared if they occur ]

there are many questions that are not answered and "may" only be answered when it is attempted. - but if it turns out that the concept does NOT work - who dares to take the changes back to what it used to be?

With the system I would like to introduce, the faction would NOT be able to restrict the purchase of capital ships. They would ONLY be able to petition the admin team to have someone's cap-flying rights removed, AFTER that individual had been shown to be screwing up. Adaquate proof would have to be shown.

In answer to your 'what if' questions...

-Then that's their own choice. If a faction chooses not to ever petition for individuals to have their cap rights removed, then that's their own choice.

-If a faction totally screws up they would have to face exactly the same punishment as anyone else who screws up. Although I would be able to answer this more clearly if you were to specify -how- said hypothetical faction would screw up.

-Re-read my proposal for how this would work. Factions would NOT be able to restrict PURCHASE.

- Irrelevant.



Now, in answer to the very last bit. I find no shame in admitting I have been wrong. I'm not a politician, I can change my mind without losing public face. If the system I propose is implemented and doesn't work, then it could be revised, changed or removed.

So in more direct answer to this...

who dares to take the changes back to what it used to be?

Me.

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[Irra]

"With the system I would like to introduce, the faction would NOT be able to restrict the purchase of capital ships. They would ONLY be able to petition the admin team to have someone's cap-flying rights removed, AFTER that individual had been shown to be screwing up. Adaquate proof would have to be shown."


I like that ...

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this is cool signature

[Tomtomrawr]

I voted for only factions to have battleships, but let indies who can role-play with theirs keep them. I think this is a great idea, but nobody would listen. All of the lolwuts wouldn't care if they are marked rogue and hunted down, it would just be more pvp to them. And what can the factions really do to stop them? The most they can do is mark them rogue and have them killed on sight.

Good idea, and I hope it gets implemented, but I just don't see it working unless the admins decide to put all the lolwut BSs in Starfliers unless the faction lets them keep their BSs.

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[17:45:39] Wolfs Ghost (Murphy): Tom, you have problems. Go kill yourself.
[19:25:12] Johnny (Jam): Tomtom, I will beat you with a spoon.
[14:22:56] Prarabdh Thakur: KILL HIM WITH A SHEEP.
[17:40:48] Eagle (Junes): Tom should be slapped with a spoon.
[11:32:18] Warspite: Thank you for being so awesome Tom. <3
[18:17:36] Metano: I love you tomtom
[20:06:24] Warspite: I will seriously give you epic head.

Edit: also, Tomtomrawr, fappin' like a boss.