My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle

[aerelm]

What I strongly disagree with is the part where staff shouldn't cater to new players

new players are absolutely important and enhancing their experience and easing them through their first few months should always be a priority, but making that the topmost priority and doubling down on that as if we still have (or will ever have) the same influx of new players as we did back in the early 2010s isn't really the most realistic way of approaching the development of a mod of a game that's been around for so long it's starting to toe the rim of that bucket of "Retro" already.

There's a difference between "screw new players" and "Keep the resources that goes into new player experience proportionate to the realistic ratio of new player influx". It's a spectrum, just because someone says "Maybe don't do this" doesn't immediately mean "Hey, do the very extreme opposite!"... Moderation is a thing after all.

Literally being one of rare kind, a new player, I'd like some elaborate on specific things you're referring to. If you would be so kind

Honestly... I don't really see the benefit of bringing up specific instances of it, since the issue is not really the circumstances around any one particular asset's replacement, but the general approach and mentality behind it. Sure I can sit here and point fingers at how this person did this or that person did that, but what would that contribute to the topic? It's not so much about this specific gun or that specific ship getting ditched, but rather that "maybe this means something to someone even if I don't see any value in it" seems to be completely ignored when considering any drastic alterations to any preexisting asset - And that imho is the problem, so the solution to that would be to just include that as a criteria to be taken into consideration for any and all future changes, rather than fixating on one item or another.

[Wesker]

I have a concern with you not revamping my shipline.

[Jaypate]

Im just here to bastardise the previously held design conventions of ships in the best of fashions, don't mind me.

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>>Literally just here to make ships, be worshipped like a God and get mad GC Puss as a result...<<

[Shiki]

i am not even concerned anymore

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[Karlotta]

new players are absolutely important and enhancing their experience and easing them through their first few months should always be a priority, but making that the topmost priority and doubling down on that as if we still have (or will ever have) the same influx of new players as we did back in the early 2010s isn't really the most realistic way of approaching the development of a mod of a game that's been around for so long it's starting to toe the rim of that bucket of "Retro" already.

Where to even begin?

1. "but making that the topmost priority "

Even now, while you are saying that it's being made a "top" priority, there are still people in the "lead" dev team who haven't managed for 2 months to pull their head out of their own rectum far enough to either move 1 existing file into 1 existing folder so it helps players find the basic important advice on how to play, or open their mouths to give a reason why it isnt being done. One can only speculate as to why leading devperson in charge behaves this way, but allow me to tell you what I consider to be a hint: The "head department lead responsible" for it is someone of the "old guard" who has consistently for over a decade been more concerned with being the "main author" in charge of something than he was concerned about that thing actually progressing in any way, no matter who and how many people begged him to either finish what he promised or let someone else do it.


2. "and doubling down on that as if we still have (or will ever have) the same influx of new players as we did back in the early 2010s"

This logic is about as flawed as not bothering to put up a sign that says "Careful slippery when wet" for the reason that so many people died here in car crashes already when the road was more busy.

Should that stuff have been done before, in 2010 or at any point between now and then? Hell yeah.

Is it a reason to not do it now? Hell no.


3. A really funny part is that when we're talking about making things more accessible and friendly for new people, we're talking about stuff that would take halfway competent people 3-4 weeks of "development work" (most of which is already done but just not being implemented for "reasons", see point 1), and it would have a permanent and lasting positive impact on literally EVERYONE for ever after. But instead of just taking those few weeks from 10 years ago to now, people like you (and that includes some people who are still in the staff) have been doing more to keep that work from being done than doing anything towards that direction.


4. The most ridiculous part is that unless they enjoy having ignorant and helpless people around so they can abuse them (some here most certainly do enjoy that), even the "l33t" would greatly benefit from having new players be more informed and able to participate in the game in a meaningful way as early as possible, so that the l33t will see their high standards and sensitivities violated a bit less due to the ignorance of the plebs.


Still waiting on you telling us what "toys" exactly you want back, because taking them away is so disrespectful to... who exactly?

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[Omi]

[align=justify]

I was going to write a big long wall of text about why I find the dismissive attitude to new players so abhorrent -- to the degree that it overshadows everything else in your diatribe -- but Karlotta has already said pretty much everything I'd want to on the issue.

I've been gone for about two years, not counting brief returns, and I barely recognise a large portion of the active playerbase. Don't sit there and claim that the majority of people who matter and on whom development should be focused is the veteran playerbase; it isn't, no matter how much you enjoy fantasising that it is.

The rest of your post is so rambly and vague that I don't really follow it. Nobody gives a shit that you don't like the new iteration of HEIMDALLs; things change, get over it. Or don't, but if you're going that route don't try and drag our potential new players down with you.

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[Jaypate]

[align=justify]

I was going to write a big long wall of text about why I find the dismissive attitude to new players so abhorrent -- to the degree that it overshadows everything else in your diatribe -- but Karlotta has already said pretty much everything I'd want to on the issue.

I've been gone for about two years, not counting brief returns, and I barely recognise a large portion of the active playerbase. Don't sit there and claim that the majority of people who matter and on whom development should be focused is the veteran playerbase; it isn't, no matter how much you enjoy fantasising that it is.

The rest of your post is so rambly and vague that I don't really follow it. Nobody gives a ***** that you don't like the new iteration of HEIMDALLs; things change, get over it. Or don't, but if you're going that route don't try and drag our potential new players down with you.

Can attest, I'm green as grass to this game and haven't even had a chance to play yet.

(though that has been mostly due to outside commitments preventing me from having the time aside from periodically throwing a new mesh out into the wild).

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>>Literally just here to make ships, be worshipped like a God and get mad GC Puss as a result...<<

[Typrop]

i too am concerned

concerned about new players, yes

very concerned

we must fix things for new players, very yes

segregate pennsylvania from the rest of sirius and make it so they have to do a restart to actually do things

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User was banned for: They will know.
Time left: (Permanent)

[aerelm]

there are still people in the "lead" dev team who haven't managed for 2 months to pull their head out of their own rectum far enough to either move 1 existing file into 1 existing folder so it helps players find the basic important advice on how to play, or open their mouths to give a reason why it isnt being done.

Y'know... I was about to post something like:

Sounds to me like you're frustrated about something, and whatever that something is, seem to be under the category of "stuff that should be done", but if you go back and re-read the original post, you'll see that it's strictly focused on "stuff that have been done"... so frankly, I don't think the concern you're trying to raise has anything to do with any point raised in this thread. So I feel it would be more constructive if it's split into its own thread where it can get the attention it needs without derailing other discussions.

But then I realized... With this whole thread revolving around being mindful of preserving the legacy of this place and staying true to how this place has always felt to be in, you just materializing out of the blue in some random thread that has even a passing mention of joe whatever you're fixated on at the moment and trying to steer the whole thread to be just about that with a borderline hostile wall-o-text is at this point pretty much a tradition almost old as the mod itself, so who am I to tell it to stop.

So by all means, please do continue. I appreciate the little dash of nostalgia (genuinely), and who knows, something good might actually come out of it.

tl;dr - Hi Karlotta.

[Champ]

I agree that toys should be kept and not overwritten. If only because I don't like recycling internal nicknames. Also because they make returns or are remastered so often, rather than just replaced, or because people never stopped liking them. I'm not aware of any reason to reduce the number of things in the mod. Technology is growing much faster than the file size of game resources. Put them client-side and we don't even have to worry about loading over network. This is not to the exclusion of genuine re-balancing or adjustment of system contents for travel considerations.

Everyone in this thread can mind their tone and their words. Don't just use pretty/anatomical words for your insults and think you can get away with it; how about you think about why you're so upset and put that energy into a rational, calm argument, or go away and have tea and bikkies instead.

The above constitutes a formal warning to keep your responses in line so that the mods don't feel bad for removing your posts and giving you warning points straight away. No, you derailing this thread because it upsets you doesn't mean you can have it locked out of some weird petty vindictiveness.

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