VHF balance

[Tenacity]

I class like this
Any Fighter with a level 10 gun slot is VHF.
any with level 9 and lower is HF (idk about LF...)

not really an effective method... There's some HF's with class 10 guns (like the blood dragon).

Most light fighters have class 8 and under guns, but some (like the arrow) have class 9 gun slots.

ships are more classified by their shield type than by their guns.

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[Jinx]

thats basicly the idea - but some are messed up - the hammerhead is a VHF without lvl10 guns - the blood dragon is a HF with lvl10 guns.

light fighters are messed up - imo LF mk2 should only have lvl 8 guns - but since they have lvl 9 ....... - anyway - do the fighters really need a rebalance - other than necessary bugfixes?

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Blodo]

Mjolnir: What about a slight powerplant boost for the Odin? Just to fine tune it more accordingly to it's big size.

[mjolnir]

Mjolnir: What about a slight powerplant boost for the Odin? Just to fine tune it more accordingly to it's big size.

I don't think it's necessary, it is one of the fastest turning non-vanilla ships. Yes it's big and can't really dodge well... but that's mostly due to the hitbox which is higher than the ship in the middle section.

I hope AoM is going to fix it a bit and it's getting a 10% size decrease. So I would say we should wait until the first beta to see what difference does it make. From my experience small size difference does a lot.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Blodo]

Yeah, good point, I forgot about the 10% size decrease it's getting. If it gets a proper hitbox size to go with it, yeah it should be fine.

[Dab]

Werewolf: Completely agree with you there.. Needs agility to be equal to Titan, and a class 10 to replace the 9 (like Wraths have). Its really easy to hit, so the 16,000 armor needs to stay.


Stinger: Hitbox needs fixed, yeah. Though it isn't as bad as people make out.. The hitbox' wings are just a bit forward of the normal wings. So your hitting just as much as you would if it had a good-fitting hitbox.


Virage: Agree with all but the turning/agility. I bought the Virage once, wanted something that few others used, yet still fit my character.. I sold it after about 15 minutes.. Flew from Kappa to Alpha and then back to Theta.. Then sold it. Beyond horrible handling. It literially felt like a brick. Like I was flying a Dromedary.


Ravenclaw: Agree.


BD HF: Doesn't need a big change.. Its already got pretty low armor (I'd suggest just lowering the armor a bit, 600 or so.). First; The Chimaera VHF has 2,000 more armor (BD: 9600, Chim: 12,400), and almost the same exact agility, turning, etc. Lowering the guns would make it completely useless. Ask Terrance. We went head-to-head. His Sabre with Inferno against my BD without an inferno. I didn't have the firepower to drop his shield, he did (even without the inferno, Krakens..). The agility is the only thing that keeps the BD alive. Its a vanilla hitbox, so missiles kill them pretty well, its got less armor than the Eagle (BD: 9,600, Eagle: 9,900). In fact, it has the LOWEST armor value of every VHF in the game, except the Hammerhead, which isn't a class-10 gun/shield ship (level 8 and 9 guns).

Its agility isn't so much that it deserves a weaponry decrease. The Chimaera definitely needs an armor decrease.. 2,000 more armor for an unnoticeable change in agility. I'd say around 10,600 armor (or 10,000 if BD is reduced to 9,000) so that it has only 1,000 more armor than the BD. Those two are almost identical ships, except for the armor..


Sabre's defense is strafing.. Thats how it stays alive. But yeah, 75 is low. I'd say making it about 100 mass would be better, so it still keeps its strafing advantage, but isn't below LF level.

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[mjolnir]

Werewolf: Completely agree with you there.. Needs agility to be equal to Titan, and a class 10 to replace the 9 (like Wraths have). Its really easy to hit, so the 16,000 armor needs to stay.

Wrath has just 4 lvl 10s, yet Werewolf could get 5 as it is definitelly nowhere near Wrath

BD HF: Doesn't need a big change.. Its already got pretty low armor (I'd suggest just lowering the armor a bit, 600 or so.). First; The Chimaera VHF has 2,000 more armor (BD: 9600, Chim: 12,400), and almost the same exact agility, turning, etc. Lowering the guns would make it completely useless. Ask Terrance. We went head-to-head. His Sabre with Inferno against my BD without an inferno. I didn't have the firepower to drop his shield, he did (even without the inferno, Krakens..). The agility is the only thing that keeps the BD alive. Its a vanilla hitbox, so missiles kill them pretty well, its got less armor than the Eagle (BD: 9,600, Eagle: 9,900). In fact, it has the LOWEST armor value of every VHF in the game, except the Hammerhead, which isn't a class-10 gun/shield ship (level 8 and 9 guns).

Its agility isn't so much that it deserves a weaponry decrease. The Chimaera definitely needs an armor decrease.. 2,000 more armor for an unnoticeable change in agility. I'd say around 10,600 armor (or 10,000 if BD is reduced to 9,000) so that it has only 1,000 more armor than the BD. Those two are almost identical ships, except for the armor..

Difference in agility between Chimaera and BD is actually quite big, the armor on Chimaera doesn't not help at all against explosives as you know.

BD with Daitos is balanced against Chimaera with anything on. Since the BD can hit the Chimaera more often but does less damage per hit. BD with Codenames or Krakens is not balanced against Chimaera.. and BD with inferno and Daitos is almost uber => if you know how to hit with inferno his shields will always be down, when they are you can "spray and pray" with daitos while he tries to dent your shield.

I for one think it should keep the agility to be different, but I can't see how lowering gun Class to 9 or 2x8 4x9 makes it useless. If you use the "normal" BD loadout which is now 2 Debilitators 4 Daitos you won't see any difference.

It was actually Terrance that suggested this FYI, not me.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[mjolnir]

*bump*

No comments from other pilots?

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Hector]

My point may be biased seeing as I'm a Corsair pilot. But the Sabre really needs to be nerfed in one way or another. In the vanilla game you had:

Sabre - Fire-power (Turret can fire forward)
Eagle - Speed (Strafe and dodging)
Titan - Armour (Self explanatory)

These three were the "best" VHF in the game and they all had one trait that made them unique from one another. As it stands right now with our current mod the sabre has gotten:

1) 400 + Armour (Vanilla Armour of sabre: 10800) - (Now: 11200)

2) The Speed of an Eagle

3) And still is available to use a turret that fires forward

To me that just sounds ridiculous, by all means its overpowered and its really weird if someone disagrees on that. Yet again this will only turn into a battle between interests, the Outcast players will defend their Sabre to stay the same and people like myself will try explaining its overpowered...

Edit: On the other ships... well I have almost zero experience so I can't say much on that. Though I have fight against a Sabre but I have also fly one.

[bluntpencil2001]

I'd suggest a slight boost to the Templar's agility, possibly in exchange elsewhere.

It is painfully bad against its KNF counterparts.

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