No captain poo you are taxing as you do in RP and for a specific reason so i think you are not being unreasonable at all. I am pretty sure my trader has fallen prey to you and dropped the cargo, turned back loaded and went the long way around and still turned a profit. It is the ones who don't want to spend the time (and i would bet they do not RP much either) to take the longer way and just want profit as fast as they can get it that are screaming sanction. So far most pirates i have encountered have been reasonable some a little fast to blast but hey you deal and move on. After all it's a game and we are supposed to have fun not take stuff personally. After re reading the OP i think both should have been sanctioned (if as it looks like Grimly is saying he was in a destroyer while pirating) and the other guy for re engaging or using another character for revenge.
captainpoo I dont see anything wrong with the amounts you are asking for given the location and especially the reasoning behind it.
Puck that is a well thought out system you use. I like it (especially considering I fly only a Large transport) :)
Grimly your idea that a trader can make that much money may not be based on a role play trade route, but a power traders route. Big difference between the two.
In all the time Ive spent on my Synth Foods trader Ive never come close to that much money, because my routes are RP commodities and dont necessarily make much money. If I get pirated for 3 mil it could potentially take hours to recoup the loss, not just minutes.
Take into account what the trader is carrying also in your RP demands. Each situation could be different.
keep in mind that this is a roleplay server. - and we are playing roles. - roles that are often different to players. these roles have different needs and ambitions than players. - at least sometimes.
then - think of your first day on disco.... - when your possession was 8500 credits and a starflier. - how much was 1 million credits for you at that time. - this is about how we should value money. - NPCs sell information based on that feeling - ( like 1000 - 10000 credits for a good information ) - bribes follow a similar thought - the highest a bribe can get is 950000 credits.
now think of what the pirate is supposed to ask for in his role. - he wants, a little for his faction, a little for himself and enough for possible repairs. - for himself - 100.000 is most certainly enough for even a YEAR. ( but thats too hardcore inChar... so lets put it - its enough for a pirating ambush ) - his faction is asking for some cash, too - that one is up to interpretation.... but for example - the gaians are organizing illegal protests on bretonian planets and found organizations that work against the bretonian goverment. - maybe a single pirating ambush for another 200.000 should be fine. - think of it ... its 200.000 credits ! - thats a huge amount ( if you think back on the first day on disco with your starflier and your 8500 credits )
then you need repairs and ammunition - usually a fighter won t cost more than 50.000 - 300.000 - so all in all, we re at around 500.000 credits that we take from a trader. - and that is a lot. think of it... half a million! - of course, we have countless millionairs on disco - basicly everyone is a millionaire ..... but knowing that is knowledge of the player, not the char.
the char will think that 500.000 is not only a little amount to ask for - but half a million is a HUGE amount - and one can be sure that ... if a pirate manages to tax 500k from a trader, there will be a huge party home that ll last more than a few days.
- now - asking for x amount "cause you know that the filthy trader makes y amount of cash in a single run" is knowledge of the player - but a character ( who still considers a million to be quite a lot ) wouldn t dare to ask for like 5 million - 10 million. and why should he? - if a pirate got 10.000.000 - he would retire, buy himself a huge estate, some servant and live like a king the rest of his life on his private isle on a spa and cruise planet.
keep thinking what the char would do - the char that does not know the "rank" of the other player, the char that thinks in terms of his origin as a pirate - and don t think as a player.
that is "role"play. - now i know that piracy isn t all so much joy when you hit traders that refuse to cooperate ( or worse... refuse to roleplay *with* you ) point blank. but a pirate should still stick to his role. - credits appear to be worth a lot less when your char is several millions worth - when you buy a supernova for 7 million - from your pocket money - but thats how the player feels. for a character, - buying such a weapon is an investment - a HUGE one even. so in my opinion - 500k is appropriate - maybe 1 million if you hit a trader that is not cooperative or attempts to shoot you down. - but anything more is too much and starts to hurt not the trader char, but the player playing the trader char.
' Wrote:keep in mind that this is a roleplay server. - and we are playing roles. - roles that are often different to players. these roles have different needs and ambitions than players. - at least sometimes.
then - think of your first day on disco.... - when your possession was 8500 credits and a starflier. - how much was 1 million credits for you at that time. - this is about how we should value money. - NPCs sell information based on that feeling - ( like 1000 - 10000 credits for a good information ) - bribes follow a similar thought - the highest a bribe can get is 950000 credits.
now think of what the pirate is supposed to ask for in his role. - he wants, a little for his faction, a little for himself and enough for possible repairs. - for himself - 100.000 is most certainly enough for even a YEAR. ( but thats too hardcore inChar... so lets put it - its enough for a pirating ambush ) - his faction is asking for some cash, too - that one is up to interpretation.... but for example - the gaians are organizing illegal protests on bretonian planets and found organizations that work against the bretonian goverment. - maybe a single pirating ambush for another 200.000 should be fine. - think of it ... its 200.000 credits ! - thats a huge amount ( if you think back on the first day on disco with your starflier and your 8500 credits )
then you need repairs and ammunition - usually a fighter won t cost more than 50.000 - 300.000 - so all in all, we re at around 500.000 credits that we take from a trader. - and that is a lot. think of it... half a million! - of course, we have countless millionairs on disco - basicly everyone is a millionaire ..... but knowing that is knowledge of the player, not the char.
the char will think that 500.000 is not only a little amount to ask for - but half a million is a HUGE amount - and one can be sure that ... if a pirate manages to tax 500k from a trader, there will be a huge party home that ll last more than a few days.
- now - asking for x amount "cause you know that the filthy trader makes y amount of cash in a single run" is knowledge of the player - but a character ( who still considers a million to be quite a lot ) wouldn t dare to ask for like 5 million - 10 million. and why should he? - if a pirate got 10.000.000 - he would retire, buy himself a huge estate, some servant and live like a king the rest of his life on his private isle on a spa and cruise planet.
keep thinking what the char would do - the char that does not know the "rank" of the other player, the char that thinks in terms of his origin as a pirate - and don t think as a player.
that is "role"play. - now i know that piracy isn t all so much joy when you hit traders that refuse to cooperate ( or worse... refuse to roleplay *with* you ) point blank. but a pirate should still stick to his role. - credits appear to be worth a lot less when your char is several millions worth - when you buy a supernova for 7 million - from your pocket money - but thats how the player feels. for a character, - buying such a weapon is an investment - a HUGE one even. so in my opinion - 500k is appropriate - maybe 1 million if you hit a trader that is not cooperative or attempts to shoot you down. - but anything more is too much and starts to hurt not the trader char, but the player playing the trader char.
/signed
I RP my trader, and some of my run's(i never go back and forth) pay less then 500k. Admittedly i have 10 char's, and trade just for spending cash(no power trading BORING!) but even when i started year's ago, i tried not to power trade. I take a load some where, find out what they have cheap,take that load to next base/planet. Find out what is cheap there, and repeat. I have got stuck a time or 2 with no cargo,But any real trucker out there will agree with me.It happen's,that is RP/Real life trading.
Pirate's who ask for more then 2mil, and are not protecting home base, are just looking to PvP IMO. Same as those who run around in pack's with a hacker gunship/rogueGB/outcast bomber all in 1 group, and demand like 10Mil or die. You know all they want to do is kill you. Plus yes these 3 are friendly, But no they would never PIRATE together.
If a trader stops quickly and doesn't fire at me I typically let him/her what they pay. "Pay me what you think will make me not blow you up". If they run/shoot/show no signs of RP I toss out the demand and open fire. my pirate has not tolerance for someone that's shooting at him, and doesn't really care if he gets money or blood, both satisfy him.
He is a bit confused though when the person whose ship he just blew up (and who's escape pod he shot) arrives 10 minutes later in a brand new ship saying "now you can't shoot at me". It puzzels him to no end and he mulls over the conundrum as he destroys yet another ship.
but back to the point. I will pirate anywhere from 500k to 20 million credits. Depending on the ship that the person is in, if they co-operate, and if he has a prior history with that person. And he will pirate you each time he sees you unless you make a deal otherwise (that's the 20million extreme, 24 hour pass for a trader). Now, with respect to Jinx, I totally agree and think that if Sirius was RL the economy would collapse due to over-inflation. But...in-game mechanics don't work that way.
to answer mb52, diamonds aren't really usefull for pirates (maybe junkers ?)
then, i ask 3M cause traders earn 5M at least for their route, so i let them 2M. A real pirate may ask more, remember the trader pay to preserve his life !
and i naturally down the tax amount when its not a adv train/whale/tanker
but grimly, you realize that you re not playing your char there - but playing yourself. - i don t think its really a big deal - but you should be aware that "knowing what the trader makes / run" and "letting him a share of whatever he gets - or even calculating how much he does / hour" is stuff that pirates don t know about.
here is the example. my gaian only knows rumors about how much ID-14 pays for the traders cargo that arrive there. - myself, i have never docked there to check - cause.... my char is red to all BMM bases of course. - so i do not know that a trader gets around 6 million in an adv. train. - but what i do know is that i the gaians can survive another day / week with the half a million i may get from the trader.
the FIRST and utmost concern of a pirate is to make the trader pay. - it is not in the interest of the pirate at all to kill the trader. - some terrorists are interested in scaring traders off so they don t even trade there anymore - but that is a faction issue ( npc faction issue ). - a true pirate will take allmost any money instead of killing the trader.
10k credits are better than blowing the trader up for a char. ( but when i was given only 10k money - even Clover would get a little impatient and blow the trader up... i guess, thats where it is a game rather than a real life simulation )
when its about trading the life for cash - then you could also ask for ALL the traders money, cause there is nothing more important than the traders life. ( at least from the point of view of the trader )
when its about taxing, ppl are often influenced by outofchar thoughts - like. " i don t like powertraders in adv. trains - so i tax them more " ..... i agree that a HUGE transport can affect the amount of cash you ask for, - but it also means that the cooperation that the trader works for will strike hard at you when you hurt them too much. - ( work only for NPC factions ) - as a gaian, i would try to find a balance between pirating "just enough" without making the authorities too mad at me, cause what the gaians can not need is to turn the full attention of the bretonian forces on them. - and when i taxed and destroyed some of their huge adv. trains, that would - in roleplay - focus their attention to me. ( whats when we roleplay stuff that is not RPed in all complexity ingame )
with that said - it is not the pirates duty to "educate" the trader. its not up to me in that case to tell the trader directly or indirectly that he is powertrading or ooRP. thats ooc to let tha influence the roleplay. - i can do that in a ooc comment in PM afterwards, but not inchar and not reflected by how i pirate them. - when i pirate them, i treat every trader alike by what information my char can gather. - that is, cargo and shipclass, thats all. - little do i know about the traders history or roleplay.
so you can of course ask a trader for 10 million, but your chances to receive ooRPness is greater than when you ask for less, cause such a huge amount is not considered inRP by most of the traders anymore.
I come to the same conclusions about adequate pirating demands, but I differ on the reasoning.
Realistically, pirates may have an inflated view of how much traders make. If you've ever encountered beggars in a developing nation, they are as likely to request an obscene amount of money as a small one. They just know that tourists are much richer than them, they don't know by how much.
If pirates are more sophisticated than beggars, they may have a very good idea of how much traders will pay. In that case, the market will set the price. The pirates demand will meet the traders supply and there you go. Don't expect a solid figure to bank on though, since different traders will value that money differently.
In terms of fun, getting pirated the exact amount you can "afford" to lose can stink. I don't want to lose my profit or more for a single run. If it is a long run I don't want to lose any more than half of my profit. I am playing this for fun, I have limited time, and the small satisfaction of a good pirating RP experience does not add up to 20 minutes lost. In the face of high demands, I am more likely to fight to the death than pay up. Fighting is fun, it's a big universe, I work for Interspace which conceivably would set such a corporate policy (especially since they don't compensate me personally when I am pirated on company business), and perhaps the pirate won't bother with a ridiculous demand next time.
Quote:Credits can get you these things. And think Africain warlords they get food and feed themselves not thier nieghbors.
Sure they can, but often at incredibly high prices. Look at the corsairs and zoners, the corsairs may buy food off the zoners, but the zoners over inflate the price. Now if a pirate sees a train full of food and was hungry, would he really ignore the food, and take credits, then go and waste all these credits on expensive food?
then, i ask 3M cause traders earn 5M at least for their route, so i let them 2M. A real pirate may ask more, remember the trader pay to preserve his life !
and i naturally down the tax amount when its not a adv train/whale/tanker
Well, you have to realize even pirates deal in stuff like diamonds and gold. Example being the illegal diamonds smuggled in from rienland to liberty. The pirates get their hands on it, then sell it to the junkers who then smuggle them onto lawful bases. Almost every commodity can be used by pirates, in fact I'd challenge you to come up with something a pirate couldn't use.
I would go further to say that pirates wouldn't deal much with credits, and use a barter system.
Example... Pirate steals a shipment of gold, he brings it to a freeport, where he trades the gold, for a shipment of food...
All a matter of opinion though, I do RP a poor rogue, who steals food and supplies whenever possible.
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