' Wrote:I figure it could be let to slide, but if they get fixed then Hogosha really shouldn't even be out of Kusari unless it's for a really good reason. They wouldn't want to be either.
In fact, most people just join the faction that has the most pvp, which would be the house military factions or the outcasts/corsairs. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's something that is easily noticable.
I don't disagree with ya'lls points above at all. But I also don't have this "gut level disgust" towards a faction using role play to pass the bounds of what npc's might do or even what an "average" player might do. It isn't threatening or scary to me as long as it isn't preposterously illogical. It's a little stifling to so often see the immediate "NO! NO! NO!" response everytime someone does a role play another player doesn't get (I don't see that in this conversation but its endemic on the mod).
Right now--as role play is structured and commodities are placed--there is some sense for Hogosha to sell at New York. Absolutely not in hanging out or basing there. Just a selling point If the update fixes the prices in Kusari that can be done away with quite reasonably but you do lose on good rp opportunity. We are looking at Sirius as a great ocean with nations on its shores and at trade and the like as turn of the century steam shipping. It's more dynamic and efficient than that. I also don't like making artificial barriers that defy what would be common sense. A well designed game should be structured in a way where common sense would lead to the right rp. That is the balance that's best.
There aren't coastal vessels that can't make an open-water trip (though some ships and routes are a lot less likely to be survivable, especially at the vanilla level). With the profit incentive leveled, you are entirely right--Hogosha are much more pleased to stay in Kusari--that's what they do. But like any organization, they will seek funding and profitability too and wouldn't ignore the best selling prices of the product on which their faction economy is based. Samur and Kishiro have bribes and ship spawn all over Sirius and strongly in Liberty. These companies saw the opportunities in growth there. So could any player's own "company"--be it an small group or indie trader.
It's fine to structure commodities to keep factions on their home turf but I hate ad hoc fixes like, "Trade at a fraction of the profit you can make because we think you should stay here instead of go there".
The Hogosha have supposedly gotten an exclusive market away from Orbital Spa and Cruise for artifacts so they shouldn't be compelled to buy from them anymore--its contrary to the news background given. Being allies to Corsairs and Order also gives them ample reason to be in the Omicrons getting their own artifacts--which is a somewhat fragmented trade route at present.
Again--where is the intense hatred and enmity by Junkers towards Hogosha generated from? If Junkers are stopped by the Kusari government itself, why particularly hate the Hogosha? Particularly if their trade ends up structured to keep them in Kusari anyway? At that point, Junker/Hogosha enmity at is a paper tiger--an empty device "just because". Junkers can't have the market with or without Hogosha and Hogosha don't want Junkers other markets--where is the conflict?
Any good story teller, author, movie director will tel you tension and conflict are crucial plot devices.l It's a weak story that creates tension with "just because" instead of making it evident through realistic portrayal. Let's don't restrict underplayed factions more to accommodate weakly constructed role play background in the game--let's make changes that strengthen the role play--whether in Kusari or out.
Right now its like, "Junkers can't get their criminal market in Kusari but in game they are finding reasons to be there" So instead of changing the things that make it plausible for them to want to be there but difficult for them to be, we come up with a "rule"..."Don't land your Junkers in Kusari or you might get sanctioned". That's really uncreative.
As given, Junkers strongly want to be in Kusari and have continued actively trying to "break in there" particularly with their illegal trade. Making it oorp to be their eliminates this whole aspect of the storyline.
There are a few Junker related high profit potential commodities that would be "what" they would want to sell in Kusari itself:
Cardamine, Artifacts and Counterfeit Software (and possibly to purchase synthetic marijuana).
The Kusari hatred of cardamine makes a perfect rp for the hate towards Junkers--they need places to profitably sell it in Kusari. You should be able to sell cardamine at one location in Kusari for just a little less than the same price as in Liberty. (If artifacts prices in Kusari get fixed, the same could apply to them.)
Counterfeit software could sell better in Kusari as well. But if you cal it oorp for them to dock, that;s pointless for the Junkers in Kusari storyline. basically, Junkers will have no reason to be in Kusari--so why would the Hogosha hate them then?
Just some thoughts--not well constructed rebuttal or demand.
' Wrote:One was Junker so he was well within his rights, but then a freelancer and a LSF in a Pretorian... (I won't even consider discusing this one..)
If your the Hogosha which stripped my shields down below half then i was well within my rights to defend myself based on the PVP Attack rules where if 50% of shields are stripped then you can attack back.
Quote:Hogosha is a Quasi-Legal house crime organisation
In Kusari there basicaly legal. I don't see why Liberty would stand for a mafia type organisation operating within there borders tho.
Quote:Also, as i stated elsewhere, the Hogosha in Kusari are looked at just as any other company. They are treated like a houise corporation. There is no reason an ambitious Hogosha company wouldn't smuggle to lucrative markets outside kusari--especially when authorities are willing to look the other way in Kusari when they do so.
Other factions have to stick within a ZIO based on the single player factions ZOI. I don't see why a faction which is only found in Kusari would have Liberty in there ZOI(Even with RP u generaly won't get players accepting a Rhineland Military vessel in Liberty for example). You rarely see RL crime organisations being able to branch out into different countries as they would then be going onto someone elses turf, if that happened then there would be a war, with the people who currently have that turf generaly winning. If the Junkers can't break through into Kursari then how would Hogosha be able to break into Junker territory especaialy when Junkers are alligned to the pirates in the area (who wouldn't like Hogosha smuggling on there turf without including them in the deal).
Quote:You rarely see RL crime organisations being able to branch out into different countries as they would then be going onto someone elses turf, if that happened then there would be a war, with the people who currently have that turf generaly winning. If the Junkers can't break through into Kursari then how would Hogosha be able to break into Junker territory especaialy when Junkers are alligned to the pirates in the area (who wouldn't like Hogosha smuggling on there turf without including them in the deal).
Exactly. I am not all against it, but if you are doing it, then be prepared for some actions against Junkers.
And I believe Dusty had some nice ideas for Hogosha - Xenos relations in that case, but which were easily flamed because "Xenos can't have anything".
So, Xenos, please don't post here, you'r too poor.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
I like the idea of a perpetual skirmish war between Junkers and Hogosha.
Each group has in common that they are a conglomerate--made up of many different individuals and individual groups.
Some Junkers and Hogosha would not want to bother with fighting and would simply avoid the other faction. others would be more milatiristic or profiteering and would "battle" rival Junker factions.
Basically gang wars over turf.
It makes playing each group more fun and there are plenty of places for each to go. In fact, some Hogosha or Junker players could rp "enforcers' going out looking for drive bys on the opposition.
For example; Junkers are neutral to Corsairs but Hogosha are allied to them.
This generates some interesting conflict scenarios. In like manner Outcasts might be helpful to Junkers (which would reflect the news note that Junkers have committed financial support to their side in the war).
Whatever is done, leave the conflicts.
Going back a bit to Blodo's statement about the Hogosha keeping Junkers out of Kusari....if we make a server rule that Junkers can't dock in Kusari the "Hogosha" aren't really doing anything--its an artificial thing that brings no fun to either factions players.
Right now, as a Junker, there is no real incentive to sell artifacts--cardamine is a much better price deal--why bother with artifacts? Its just as profitable to ignore them as to sell them. And Hogosha do have no where to sell theirs at a real profit but in Liberty.
The news also specifically states that the Hogosha have gotten the artifact business away from Orbital Spa and Cruise so buying artifacts on the cruise ship is kinda oorp on that. If you 'fix' that then you also disable the Hogosha-Corsair alliance which is something that opens doors to other Hogosha rp activity as well.
Ever consider a Hogosha company that uses its alliance with the Order to harvest nomads and sell the gathered components back in Kusari at the good prices at the bases there? Maybe Hogosha doing something together with the Corsairs--as in a fighting unit working with Corsairs to interdict cardamine shipments.
All kinds of things can happen. If you dumb it all down to "stay in Kusari", they are place holders again and will continue to have few players. All that to keep the sensibilities of vanilla which Disco has already changed regarding them.
I don't really see most Junkers in actual "groups" or "gangs" going to war with some group that doesn't even threaten them on their home grounds. They are a far more individualistic group than the Hogosha, and prominent Junkers would rather manipulate their way into foreign markets, than use the military approach.
If you really want interaction with Hogosha, Golden Chrysanthemums actually want Junkers to dock on their stations and bring them supplies. From there it makes at least some sense..
hogosha, on the other hand, ARE like that. The hogosha faction is made up of several different smaller groups and 'families' much like the mafia (read: yakuza) who are all working towards the same goal - keeping foreigners and their influence from destroying kusari culture, and promoting the wealth and prosperity of all kusari citizens.
My point is it gives players the freedom to play it either way they like it.
A person can play a conventional version staying in Kusari and never leaving or branch out into activities in ou of Kusari smuggling or Corsair or Order missions.
One way leaves more possibilities open, the other just shuts them down. I like the idea of players making the choices rather than rules forcing choices onto them.
Quote:One way leaves more possibilities open, the other just shuts them down. I like the idea of players making the choices rather than rules forcing choices onto them.
Agreed.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
Quote:And Hogosha do have no where to sell theirs at a real profit but in Liberty.
Iv never been a corsair but lets say for example that corsairs could sell goods in Manhatten and make lots of money from it. What your basicaly saying is that Corsairs should then be able to goto liberty as that would be there best route. Hogosha arn't a Traders group, there a Mafia style group that protects there own interests in Kusari, tax's or steals goods from forren transports, takes a cut from all sales in Kusari, etc, they don't wonder the universe trading wares(Mafia's have people to do that for them).
Hogosha are only "Semi-Lawful" inside of Kusari as they have the government under there finger. Outside of Kusari they would just be as much a pirate as any other and should be treated the same.
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